Auto or Short-Throw Manual ?

[Auriga]

Would you get the automatic or the new "short-throw" manual ?

 

[mad47]

What's an "automatic" ? :cool

 

[ROCKETBLOCK]

;stupid

 

[JBsC5]

Short throw Manual's a blast...for the street or the road course type work...

Automatics rule for consistancy at the strip..

Personal choice would be a dual clutch sequential that even has Dave Hill interested for Corvette's future..DUAL CLUTCH SEQUENTIAL THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS

 

[jazzlove]

You're kidding, right??:L

 

[JBsC5]

You're kidding, right??:L

No I'm not. Dual clutch sequential shifters are the wave of the future for performance applications.

I can't shift in less than 50 milliseconds but I'd still rather choose the gears so I'd choose this option. Watch the Porsche 911 evolution coming in 2005..This option of dual clutch sequential shift technology will change everything we consider as performance options..much in the same vein as ABS brakes have.


I wouldn't let my ego get in the way of better and more consistant performance.

 

[JBsC5]

Heres the first street application. Forget about the Audi as the car b/c its a bit lame compared to the vette...but check out the review on the tranny..and remember when porsche uses this technology on the '05 911 we will get a better understanding of what this dual clutch can do in a true performance car..

Heres the review (and yes...even Dave Hill is impressed with this new technology)


posted 12-02-2003 09:16 AM
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Audi shifts into a new gear


By John McCormick / Autos Insider



Audi's DSG uses two hydraulic clutches to shift gears.


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Innovative technology can be frustrating. Just ask Mercedes-Benz or BMW about the problems they have experienced with new electronic systems on recently launched models. Occasionally, however, a new device comes along that works well right from the start.

Such is the case with Audi's new direct shift gearbox (DSG), an automated manual transmission which has its first outing in the 2004 TT 3.2 Quattro. Before experiencing the new TT, I always believed I would choose a manual transmission unless facing a long commute in city traffic. For my money, the tap shift automatics and paddle shift systems introduced to date have not totally succeeded in replacing the feeling of control of a proper manual transmission.

But Audi's DSG, which is also destined to appear in the new Golf R32 sports car from parent company, Volkswagen AG, comes closer than any system I have tried. Developed by US supplier BorgWarner, DSG is different to systems like BMW's SMG in that it uses two hydraulic clutches to shift gears instead of electrohydraulic actuators.

Driving the TT, you can change gears either with steering wheel paddles or via the floor console lever. Either way, the beauty of the dual clutch design is that it pre-selects the next gear you need and does so very swiftly and with no interruption of power flow. Select sport mode and the system will even give the throttle a slight blip on the downshift, just as you would if shifting a conventional manual gearbox.

DSG works so smoothly and intuitively you find yourself running up and down the six speeds available just for the fun of it. Importantly, the system also faithfully imitates the slick-shifting action of a normal automatic transmission, whereas rival systems can be jerky in full automatic mode.

Does DSG fully recreate the feeling of control you experience when braking into your favorite corner with a well-executed series of manual gearbox downshifts? Not quite. You can't modulate the clutch in the same way or sense the engine braking effect. But DSG is pretty convincing all the same and one advantage is that it leaves the driver free to concentrate more fully on steering, throttle and brakes when charging down a twisting road.

Apart from the clever hardware, DSG relies on sensors and a computer to determine the driver's intent and which gear to select next. According to Audi's product experts, it took two years of painstaking development to work the bugs out of the system. The end result is a technical advance that, along with a new, more powerful 250-hp 3.2-litre V-6 engine, adds fresh luster to the TT coupe and roadster. The model's ground-breaking design (seven years old but still highly influential) also receives several small but useful styling tweaks.

For Audi of America, the arrival of the new TT comes at a time when the company is trying to underscore the sporty, performance nature of its brand. Ably led by Len Hunt, a true motorsports enthusiast, Audi expects sales this year to be on par with 2002, but to grow in 2004, despite new competing models from BMW and Mercedes. Even though it is aging, the TT should continue to be an effective halo model for Audi, thanks to the new engine and DSG.

As for conventional manual transmissions, 10 or 20 years from now we may be wondering why we ever bothered with them, if we continue to see progress on automated systems like that demonstrated by DSG.

 

[LongTimer]

OK DSG sounds nice. But ...
1. ... does it cost more than 6Sp Manual?
2. ... does it weigh more than 6Sp Manual?
3. ... is it as reliable as a 6Sp Manual?
4. ... is maintenance more $$ than a 6Sp Manual?
5. ... when out of warrantee will it cost more to fix than a 6Sp Manual?

I think I'll keep rowing.

 

[JBsC5]

OK DSG sounds nice. But ...
1. ... does it cost more than 6Sp Manual?
2. ... does it weigh more than 6Sp Manual?
3. ... is it as reliable as a 6Sp Manual?
4. ... is maintenance more $$ than a 6Sp Manual?
5. ... when out of warrantee will it cost more to fix than a 6Sp Manual?

I think I'll keep rowing.

1. maybe a grand ?
2. about three lbs
3.b/c computers control clutch activation..perfection in shifting extends tranny and clutch life.
4. extended maintance b/c computer controlled clutch activation.
5. Proably the same costs.

6. Hopefully ceramic clutch material will make clutch outlast the entire car!

 

[jazzlove]

It sounds like a technological breakthrough for sure. The average person could probably move faster through the gears and achieve a faster time using this transmission.

But at least with me, thats not the point. I love to choose my gear, whether upshifting , downshifting, and especially cornering. It just adds to the joy of driving a high performance sports car. I even like it in city driving, but thats just me.:cool

 

[JBsC5]

Don't get me wrong..I enjoy shifting through the gears and timing the perfect downshift..

It does make driving more enjoyable..

Its pretty much ..the 50 millisecond consistantly perfect shifts that these Dual clutch sequentials offer..I can't help but think its a very cool performance option.

Hope my enthusiasm for this development doesnt' in any way negate the skill we've all worked on perfecting.

We still have to make the decision on what gear..and when..and then shift the stick shift or use the paddles..( I like the idea of having both and would most probably prefer the stick over the paddles) Just letting the computer operate the clutch for 50 millisecond shifts.

Hopefully it will be allow to enjoy driving harder and faster than ever before..Much like competitive mode active handling does for us now.

Keeping the Corvette at the top of the performance arena is part of the desire for this option.

(Plus when total performance is not paramount..and stuck in hours of bumper to bumper traffic..we could switch to fully automatic mode)

 

[atmmac]

sounds pretty bad ill stick with my 6 speed it works just fine and doesnt cost a fortune. technology often isnt the way to go. low tech cars like my impala are easier and more fun to fix. Im a strong believer in that!

 

[JBsC5]

Like ABS Brakes .? That was also a technical advancement most diehards fought till they experienced its benefits..

Same for Active handling..

We shall see in the next few years what happens with dual clutch sequential shifters..

Hell I remember people saying this type of "keep it simple approach years back when fuel injection was coming of age..

This is the new wave of performance...and we should see what the 2005 Porsche 911 does with a stick shift or a computerized clutch sequential shifter..

Maybe you guys are right....who like standard shifts..without computer operation of the clutch..

I look foward to the advance technology and the reports we hear raving about it..

I'd bet..two years or so after the new high performance Z06 version at the very least will offer dual clutch technology..

Differences of opinion on technology make these forums interesting..

 

[Edmond]

JB,

First off, I just saw your pic in your signature and I love it!

We've had discussions about this before and I agree with you on this one. Corvette has always seemed to set the standard for technology in GM's family. Why should this dual clutch sequential shifting be any different?

I think that once people experience it, they will like it. I think when people start seeing the capabilities of this technology in a Corvette, they're going to be like :eek

These next few years are going to be quite exciting for Corvette. With the new technology that's coming out and people demanding more and more, I think Corvette is only going to get better.

 

[atmmac]

why fix something that isnt broken?? Standard transmissions have been around since cars were first invented and the new standard six speeds perform nearly flawlessly i dont want my shifting to be compromised by computers. This is an opinionated topic but im just making my opinion heard. If it has computers its bound to have problems. I mean my steering column on my 97 vette locked up twice. On my 66 impala i have had not a single problem with my steering column. Sometimes i think that new technology is definetly more prone to problems. Just my take!

Merry Christmas!

-Andy

 

[JBsC5]

Lots of interesting perspectives...!

Choices! I bet their will be more choices than ever....

 

[LongTimer]

1. maybe a grand ?
2. about three lbs
3.b/c computers control clutch activation..perfection in shifting extends tranny and clutch life.
4. extended maintance b/c computer controlled clutch activation.
5. Proably the same costs.

6. Hopefully ceramic clutch material will make clutch outlast the entire car!

OK you got my attention, but I need to see some car rags test these and even then I'd probably wait until production year 2 or three for something this new. SMG costs big $$ and BMW still hasn't gotten that right.

 

[JBsC5]

The added cost is running around 1250 dollars compared to a standard stick shift car..

I would wait for the second year of production on such an item just because I believe that option will get a heavy dealer surcharge of "Market adjustment"

Figure 3 or 4 years on the C6 production before it hits.

IMHO

 

[RedLdr1]

No Row, Row, Row your own for me..

If actually sales percentages ended up like this poll implies automatics would be far and few between. Come on resale!!
Personally I prefer an automatic as I drive my Vette every day in Atlanta traffic. Manuals are a pain in the :booty , or leg anyway in metro traffic.

 

[DigitalCorvettes.com]

Definitely a stick for me. When I drive automatics I'm always looking for a clutch!