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1968 Convertible NEEDS MODS

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andrewmckernon

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I have a 1968 White convertible with a '69 350 in it. Everything else is stock. I was wondering what mods i should put on this beast. I want noise, power, and muscle. I need to know what carb to put on, headers, intake, exhaust, ect. Can anyone help. Thanks.
 
I would start with a cam and heads first.....Then check out good intake and carb....I am running a performer intake with a Race demon 650.....Best headers for the money are dynomax coated for around 230 bucks...Run 2.5 exhaust with and H or an x pipe...I am running flowmaster 40s and they sound AWESOME
 
You need a comprehensive plan.

Start by looking at your rear gear ratio and tire size. Move forward from there.

Determine if you want all around performance, just 0-60, 1/4 mile, or cruising fun.

This will help you pick the best cam to match your rear gear. The other suggestions sound great for getting the exhaust and carb up and running.

Then, talk to the different tech lines from Crane, Edelbrock, etc. and find out what cam shafts will work with your rear gear and desired performance goals.

That should get you going. Of course, going with Hooker side pipes never hurts for performance and sound (as well as super hot looks).
 
HUGE question....I'll look just at engine mainly

The first two questions you have to answer for yourself are how original is your vette and how original do you want it to be? (that was really the first :) ) and how many cubic bucks do you wish to slavishly devote to your new god? :)

I can't agree enough with 69MyWay on the SidePipes. I have a great low restriction aluminized 2.5" standard under car system through FlowMasters very well done by Triple A Muffler of Mesquite, coming off of Hooker Headers, with no horrid cats, with a crossover (it does cut into sound quite a bit, but improves high RPM breathing a lot) and with twin secondary mounted O2 sensors for my A/F meter.

My little SBC sounds awesome and has very little restriction.

Nevertheless I can't wait to change it.

I want all that HEAT out from under my car. I want it AWAY from my tranny and I want to stop grinding on the pipes on road bumps! Since I want a monster BB I want REAL diameter pipes, which you simply can't run under the car through the conventional holes (3.25" is about max clearance - forget 4.5".)

That leads to my main consideration: Engine selection.

Before considering upgrades to that specific engine, be sure you wish to stay with it.

An honest 35 year old cast iron SBC is not that great a platform and yet may be worth something. New or newer castings, four bolt, even aluminum or raised deck (or both!) or a change to a BB may ultimately be your most effective ticket to 10 and 7 pounds per hp and less. The newer later chevy engines are excellent as well and are a consideration.

In my sick and twisted view, if you don't care about originality that much except external appearance (and in general what it could have been) or if it has already been altered a lot, the best bang for your buck all around is going big block and not even upgrading the small block.

This may start a flame war, but it's just not deniable:

There is no replacement for displacement!

(If no SB BABIES respond to THAT barb, well it's just because they. are. WEAK!) :argue :booty :) :) :)

You can build or buy a crate SBC making just under a reliable/durable 1.1 HP/cube with a solid 6500 usable redline for $3500-5000. Of course you can get closer to 1.3 HP/cube, in the same 50K+ mile/1k+ engine hour durability fairly easily, without getting too exotic, but you are in the $7-10,000 range then.

Now big blocks are more expensive to buy into and require some other changes - the best radiators (as do ANY powerful engines,) power steering manipulations sometimes, heavier front springs, etc. You can however get into an even more reliable/durable 1.0HP/cube BBC with a solid useful 6000 redline for only $4500-6500. Similar "mid-end" BBC efforts are going for about the same $7-10,000 as the SBC, and they will typically yield 1.2 HP/cube.

You're dealing with a base 385 hp in the SBC or 455 hp in the BBC. Things really get interesting when you throw in the stroker combinations available to both. 383 cube SBC's grow on trees today, as do 572 cube BBC's - and between the range of those two price groupings, since it's largely bolt in bottom-end. These strokers typically develop a few fewer hp/cube and are capable of a little less RPM, but also typically have greater torque.

So now you're dealing with 400+hp (right up there with the Z06's) in the moderate stroked SBC and 560+hp in the moderate stroked BBC!!! (which only a few limited run early C3's and blown C4's and C5's ever approached...)

I can't help starting with engine concerns first, as they determine so many others, such as gearing, tranny choices, need for OD's, usefullness of "normal" manual transmissions/clutches, exhaust options, weight concerns. The choice drives many others.
 
HEADS?

what type of heads and cam do you recommend if it is going to be my first mod to my stock '69 350?
 
EGR?

I dont know what EGR stands for. Can anyone help?
 
Re: HEADS?

andrewmckernon said:
what type of heads and cam do you recommend if it is going to be my first mod to my stock '69 350?

Now that is a big decision.........What I would do Is look at several combinations and choose the one that best fits your setup...As 69myway said ......A lot depends on the rear gear and transmission. You need to decide exactly what you want from the motor. How is the Bottom end? Has it been worked or is it stock??
 
350 Mods....

EGR: Exhaust Gas Recirculation n. from the Latin
Enginas Gutless Ridiculonus Defn: Synonymous with 'evil', a system that was promoted and forced on defenseless performance buffs by greenie fanatics that mixes a portion of mainly burnt exhaust gas that might just still contain a tiny portion of not-quite completely oxidized exhaust gas with the incoming air.

Not only was it felt by greenie "engineers" that this absurd "converse afterburner" would help burn up the remaining unburned fuel in the exhaust gas, but also, and more directly it would serve to quickly elevate the incoming air temperatures on start up to minimize cold running inefficiencies, which must kill seals and cause bad language.

You have a '68 in Texas and thus do not have to have this absurd, performance destroying system left intact. Unlike catalytic converters (which you also do not need) which can be made or chosen to have minimal impact on performance and be of some anti-pollution efficacy, EGR systems are simply stupid and disastrous.

You will have a choice in choosing intake manifolds that have provisions for an EGR valve. You don't particularly want these intakes, although simply having provisions is not a bad thing.

Since you won't yank out your tiny SBC and put in a 730 cube stroked BB, one combination you may consider that I am looking at as an interim on my might-make-it SB is the Edelbrock Performer RPM Air Gap Package.

Cams are designed to work with particular profile intake runners, both in the intake manifold and then in the heads. A number of manufacturers have recently gone beyond the usual recommended range of compatible accessories to make complete, accurately designed entire packages. Edelbrock is one, Holley/Weiand is another.

The Edelbrock package is the one I am most familar with, having used their simple tough AFB PIP'ed carburetors for years over the somewhat fragile and harder to tune basic Holley design. (The Barry Grant "Demon" product one responder mentioned is a PIP'ed Holley that is reportedly an excellent design - I may go with one on a near future car.

The RPM Air Gap package including $1K heads, $200 Air Gap Intake, $150 Cam and Lifter kit and $250 750 cfm carburetor has widely claimed 420 hp and commesurate torque on a fairly broad range with a high top end capability on an otherwise stock 9.5 CR SBC.

That is hard to sneeze at. A modest investment of $1600 to make more power than any SBC package that ever came out of Detroit? Hotter than the current Z06? Wow.

I'd add aluminum roller rockers for $100, $150 for stud girdles, $150 for copper head and exhaust gaskets, $450 for headers and massive pipes with some sort of crossover, $170 for optimum air filtration (K&N or Holley), $125 for high volume fuel pump and low restriction fuel filter, $400 for an adjustable high-end ignition system and $250 for a reducer pulley system. All of that should bump that 420 peak up 30 or 40 hp or better and broaden the range even more.

For real adventure, throw in another $750-1250 for a stroker rotating assembly and you now have a 10.5 CR 377 pushing a projected 500+hp across a broad range and even more impressive torque.

This is just one "shake and bake" approach to getting a lot out of a tiny little engine without spending a huge amount of money. Matching the cam, heads and intake from the manufacturer's design bench rather than trying to select matching components yourself is a much more sure fire approach.

For all the powerplant concerns, I'd pick up catalogs from Performance Automotive Wharehouse, Summit, Jegs and any other general purpose performance parts suppliers you happen across rather than those specifically aimed at 'Vettes.

BTW, some people are really raving about the Air FLow Research (AFR) heads lately - including some here. If you go with those or a Trick Flow or Dart product do NOT pick some gawdawful 230+ intake runners - the 190-210 is the right one for the whole RPM range, those huge runners are a high RPM/extreme stroker (405+ cube) design. Make sure you get a cam THEY recommend, if not grind. (Aluminum is of course the way to go on all of these components, since it gives you a whole additional possible CR point - 9.5:1 or so to as high as 10.75:1, still on 93 octane. It's also so much lighter it REALLY impacts your vette's weight/hp ratio. Few consider that it is also much easier to work with and install without hoists or pry bars or buddies - you get it on right and don't drop it, have problems aligning it and damage gaskets and such. Of course a budget set of big valve, high lift iron heads isn't bad, but should really only be picked if they are SUPER cheap or your budget is collapsing.)
 
Re: 350 Mods....

WayneLBurnham said:
EGR: Exhaust Gas Recirculation n. from the Latin
Enginas Gutless Ridiculonus Defn: Synonymous with 'evil', a system that was promoted and forced on defenseless performance buffs by greenie fanatics that mixes a portion of mainly burnt exhaust gas that might just still contain a tiny portion of not-quite completely oxidized exhaust gas with the incoming air.

Not only was it felt by greenie "engineers" that this absurd "converse afterburner" would help burn up the remaining unburned fuel in the exhaust gas, but also, and more directly it would serve to quickly elevate the incoming air temperatures on start up to minimize cold running inefficiencies, which must kill seals and cause bad language.

You have a '68 in Texas and thus do not have to have this absurd, performance destroying system left intact. Unlike catalytic converters (which you also do not need) which can be made or chosen to have minimal impact on performance and be of some anti-pollution efficacy, EGR systems are simply stupid and disastrous.

You will have a choice in choosing intake manifolds that have provisions for an EGR valve. You don't particularly want these intakes, although simply having provisions is not a bad thing.

Since you won't yank out your tiny SBC and put in a 730 cube stroked BB, one combination you may consider that I am looking at as an interim on my might-make-it SB is the Edelbrock Performer RPM Air Gap Package.

Cams are designed to work with particular profile intake runners, both in the intake manifold and then in the heads. A number of manufacturers have recently gone beyond the usual recommended range of compatible accessories to make complete, accurately designed entire packages. Edelbrock is one, Holley/Weiand is another.

The Edelbrock package is the one I am most familar with, having used their simple tough AFB PIP'ed carburetors for years over the somewhat fragile and harder to tune basic Holley design. (The Barry Grant "Demon" product one responder mentioned is a PIP'ed Holley that is reportedly an excellent design - I may go with one on a near future car.

The RPM Air Gap package including $1K heads, $200 Air Gap Intake, $150 Cam and Lifter kit and $250 750 cfm carburetor has widely claimed 420 hp and commesurate torque on a fairly broad range with a high top end capability on an otherwise stock 9.5 CR SBC.

That is hard to sneeze at. A modest investment of $1600 to make more power than any SBC package that ever came out of Detroit? Hotter than the current Z06? Wow.

I'd add aluminum roller rockers for $100, $150 for stud girdles, $150 for copper head and exhaust gaskets, $450 for headers and massive pipes with some sort of crossover, $170 for optimum air filtration (K&N or Holley), $125 for high volume fuel pump and low restriction fuel filter, $400 for an adjustable high-end ignition system and $250 for a reducer pulley system. All of that should bump that 420 peak up 30 or 40 hp or better and broaden the range even more.

For real adventure, throw in another $750-1250 for a stroker rotating assembly and you now have a 10.5 CR 377 pushing a projected 500+hp across a broad range and even more impressive torque.

This is just one "shake and bake" approach to getting a lot out of a tiny little engine without spending a huge amount of money. Matching the cam, heads and intake from the manufacturer's design bench rather than trying to select matching components yourself is a much more sure fire approach.

For all the powerplant concerns, I'd pick up catalogs from Performance Automotive Wharehouse, Summit, Jegs and any other general purpose performance parts suppliers you happen across rather than those specifically aimed at 'Vettes.

BTW, some people are really raving about the Air FLow Research (AFR) heads lately - including some here. If you go with those or a Trick Flow or Dart product do NOT pick some gawdawful 230+ intake runners - the 190-210 is the right one for the whole RPM range, those huge runners are a high RPM/extreme stroker (405+ cube) design. Make sure you get a cam THEY recommend, if not grind. (Aluminum is of course the way to go on all of these components, since it gives you a whole additional possible CR point - 9.5:1 or so to as high as 10.75:1, still on 93 octane. It's also so much lighter it REALLY impacts your vette's weight/hp ratio. Few consider that it is also much easier to work with and install without hoists or pry bars or buddies - you get it on right and don't drop it, have problems aligning it and damage gaskets and such. Of course a budget set of big valve, high lift iron heads isn't bad, but should really only be picked if they are SUPER cheap or your budget is collapsing.)

Wow that is quite a lot of Good information........GREAT POST...It was I that recommended the Demon .......Great carb at a Great price...But do not rule out Iron Heads.I have 69 (041) heads with 64 cc chambers and they Flow Quite well....two of my friend have the Edelbrock package and are quite happy..It does include a pretty aggressive cam so you need the lower rear gear to help make it work and get into the Power band quickly
 
Lifter Trouble

I recently discorvered that one of my rocker arms was busted right in half. I replaced it and finally got the eigth vavle that hasnt been working for some days now, working. It's still making a clicking noise. Could this be a lifter problem on the valve that my broken rocker arm was on??
 
If you're LUCKY it's just a lifter....

....gotta wonder what made a good 'ole heavy, too flexible stamped steel rocker arm break though...of course it could be a collapsed or over tightened hydraulic lifter piston and spring doomafliggy, but those are pretty weak compared to the strength of a factory rocker arm...

...I'd more suspect a bent push rod - which is the best possible thing in any event - easy to replace and cheap - much better than a lifter....

Unfortunately it is also quite likely a bent valve or a damaged valve seat surface, either one of which requires pulling the head.

Design wise the push rods are supposed to bent first before the valves get damaged, but this is far from failsafe.

I am assuming you noticed nothing amiss with the valve spring or retainer.

A decent mechanic could tell you which was more likely simply by watching a vacuum gauge and listening with a stethescope. A slob like me would take the pushrod and roll it on a flat surface, realize it was straight, but change it anyhow because it's right there and cheap. :)

(Why look for keys you dropped in the street anywhere except near a light? Who cares if you dropped them 200 yards away?)

When that failed I'd complain, kick a small furry animal or two to death, and rip off the intake and change the lifters.

Stupidly, I'd then put it back together, probably not fully sealing the back edge with a nice blob of silite and leaking oil, when I really needed to pull the head because of course with my absurd bad fortune it was both a bent valve with a chipped edge and a chipped valve seat... :cry

The only light at the end of this tunnel, besides the headlight of the train that only ran over my left foot, is I would probably find one more credit card with room on it before I put the head back on and go ahead and swap those heads to something "high-tech."

Better luck to you than I get! By the way, you may want to try the "magic solvent of the Gods" approach. Since that lifter may not have exercised in some time, it may just be clogged or lightly corroded and some time under oil pressure with a cleaning agent added to the oil like ATF or WD40 or some specialty cure-all might free it up.....

....NAH!!! You're DOOMED!!! :)
 
What if it is a cylinder?

If it is a cylinder, am i screwed of what? Do i have to machine the thing, or is it done for for my little 350?

More so, i was contemplating getting a new camshaft while getting new lifters (if the lifter was the problem mentioned earlier). I was thinking about getting an Edelbrock cam, do i have to have an Edelbrock Intake, or can i invest in one later on down the road and continue with an Edelbrock cam and stock intake?

-Andrew
 
Well, you can't rule out ANYTHING, but...

I'd doubt it was in the bottom end at all....

Something wrong with the cylinder wall, top piston land/groove or ring or a bent connecting rod or spinning bearing or other such horror usually makes itself known a lot more definitively than with a small ticking. It also usually degrades quickly: noise in minute 1 at idle, busted/seized/shutdown by minute 3 at idle or minute 1.5 at half throttle.

No, I would suspect your trouble is definitely top end.

Oh absolutely change the cam while you're there!!! If you have to change the lifters anyhow...sure! There probably is not single hundred buck deal that can bring you more power than a cam change.

Nothing wrong with keeping your current manifold for now - you'll just maximize your yield with a better designed one, and one designed for the cam's general type of function - but that can be changed easily and later. I'd change the timing gear & chain while down there though - to the nastiest, strongest, most expensive and adjustable thing you can get. Change to a two or three piece timing cover while you're there too - in case you don't like your new cam or....it's not RADICAL enough!!! :eek :J

Remember, anything that increases valve lift or duration will drastically increase stress on the upper end of the motor, especially valve springs, push rods and rocker arms. Whatever cam you choose, make sure you have the appropriate other valve gear in place for it.

Of course a high over lapping cam will, besides increasing peak power, raise and narrow the center of the powerband, drop engine vacuum (and thus low engine speed response and vacuum accessories like brakes and pop-up headlights), roughen the idle and worsen low speed fuel economy and emissions....and sound GREAT!!! :)
 
TIMING CHAIN?

what type of timing chain do you recommend then? And how will a three piece timing cover benefit me exactly?
 
Re: TIMING CHAIN?

andrewmckernon said:
what type of timing chain do you recommend then? And how will a three piece timing cover benefit me exactly?

The benefit will be ease of access

$93.95






Vendor: Cloyes Gear & Products Inc.
Product Line: Cloyes Two Piece Timing Cover
Material: Aluminum
Finish: Satin

Easy access to your cam.

Chevrolet: 262-400, two piece, satin finish, aluminum, timing cover


This Cloyes two piece timing cover has a removable center plate with an O-ring seal to allow easy access to your cam for changing timing or adjusting cam end play. Precision machined from die-cast aluminum for sure sealing, this cover fits small block Chevrolet engines with most water pumps and timing sets.

Sold individually.


$67.95






Vendor: Cloyes Gear & Products Inc.
Product Line: Cloyes True Roller Timing Sets
Material: Steel

True rollerized timing from Cloyes

Chevrolet: 262-400 90 degree V6, true roller set


This Cloyes True Roller timing set features a full, roller-action Renold, double roller, chain made from high strength steel for superior durability. The cam sprocket is made from heat-treated cast iron, while the crank sprocket is machined from high carbon heat-treated steel for strength. With three key ways for adjustability, 4 degrees advance, 4 degrees retard, and normal, this set is hand matched to ensure precise chain tension.

Sold in sets.


clo-93100.jpg
 
Edelbrock 3 piece timing set

what about edelcrocks three piece timing set. There is no chain involved. Is this a superior product, or not as good as a great timing chain??
 
Re: Edelbrock 3 piece timing set

andrewmckernon said:
what about edelcrocks three piece timing set. There is no chain involved. Is this a superior product, or not as good as a great timing chain??

I have never used it so i can't judge it in comparison
 
What about Paint?

i wanted to paint my 68. It's not the original color anymore, the previous owner took the liberty to strip it of it's rally red, and instead add a coat of white. It looks ALRIGHT, but i want an original color, like british green, or something like that. Does anyone know how much a good paint job would cost, without puting me in the whole 10 grand...?

-andrew
 
Cloyes Double Roller a Performance STANDARD

Until cheaper gear drives from Pete Jackson and Edelbrock became available, there was no option to a quality double roller.

As I understand it, a chain offers less parasitic loss, and it's much quieter than even the "quiet" gear drives (the "noisy" ones literally wail - sound almost like a turbo or an axial blower.) The gears are stronger, have virtually no play and offer huge adjustability.

I haven't used one yet, but a Pete Jackson "noisy" is going on with my cam. In 2019, when I can finally build the engine I got the stupid car for in the first place, I will use a "quiet" one so I can use knock sensors and, as I understand it, most roller cam setups on BB's.

Paint? You gotta be kidding! I go through a gallon of the wrong tough-up paint a month! One shop I had great results with a few years back on an old Lincoln wanted $2500 for a decent, but no-frills job.

BTW, the rocker that keeps loosening now that you changed lifters (and rocker arms).... Do you have screw-in studs for sure? I had a '71 Firebird with a 350 Pontiac in it that did that. I'd set the lifters....two hours later they'd be clattering again....

I bought some locking (with set screws) rocker arm nuts (rare then) - it made no difference....

Finally I realized the studs were press-in and backing out! I don't remember if I had it done or did it myself (tough on the car - take them in to a shop), but I put threaded ones in and the problem stopped.
 
So the Chain or the Gears...?

I was unclear on whether or not you preferred the chains or the gears. I hear that the gears have much more tunability....

Please clarify.

They are threaded bolts, and for some reason the rocker arm is loosening still.

-andrew
 

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