Question: 82 CE Does not start sometimes - Gremlins?

[82ColEd]

Gidday Fellow Vette-Heads..

I have a weird issue, that i have exhausted my non-technical thought process on and need your help. :ugh

Problem: Sometimes my Vette does NOT start. I turn the key, i hear the prime of the pump, lights on, except the brake light (Handbrake), turn the key fully, nothing, not a click to be heard. Turn the key a few times, still nothing. Once i put turn the key back 1 click, the BRAKE light is on. But, sometimes she starts after the 2nd or 3rd try. This happens at all sorts of different times, after a ride, going shopping, i get back, nothing. I have gotten a jump from someone and she starts right up. Then for a few days, all is well, starts right up, i get hopeful until again (this morning), nothing. I usually then hook her up to the tender and she is fine again, but, i do need to get to the bottom of the issue.

I have already replaced the battery, thinking, it's 8+ years old, and why not. Did not help. I have also replaced the alternator as i had had that in the past (No start and that helped then), also, no success. I was going for the starter next, but figured, I'd ask you guys with more expertise if that could really be it. I am doubting it, as once hooked up to another car, she starts fine.

Are there any test's i can do? I don't have a lift or fully kitted out garage, but i can do a few things here and there..


Stefan

 

[Antz81]

Perhaps the new battery is bad also? It does happen. So you could get that tested.
Anti theft system faulty, or just a bad interrupt relay.
ignition switch only intermittently making contact when turned to start.
a bad ground or b+ (possibly the cable itself rather than the connection.

Thats all I can think of for now but I'm sure others will think of other possible causes too.
I'm sure you'll know how to test those so I won't go into the details

 

[bill81vette]

Stefan,I was having trouble with the '81 doing the same thing...
thinking it was the battery, I replaced it as it was bought the 1st year I had the vette in Carlisle..
9 years ago...problem went away for a few weeks....then it happens again!!!ad
Ok, now I check all the grounds,hots and clean everything under the vette,and near the starter...problem goes away again...for several more weeks....
does it again,at a friends house35 miles from home.....mad
get it home pulled the starter and the 2 copper bars that go into the starter from the bendix were a very pretty green!!!!!(@##$%%^^ Corrosion)....
changed starter problem goes away....
for what its worth ....pull your starter and check it!!!
I was under there when I cleaned the grounds and checked the leads to the starter,and never noticed it b/c of the way the starter is mounted to the block....the copper bars are on top of the starter.perhaps your starter is just going bad....

good luck !!!!Bill

 

[82ColEd]

Thanks Guys..

Once i am done with the weekend project travels i'll take a look at the Aussi List and the starter bars.. Good Tips!

 

[82ColEd]

Ok, update from the trenches so to speak...:eyerole (Sorry for the long windedness, but i gotta get it off my chest)

September 19th..
I got the starter from the usual place here in Frankfurt and went under the car the next day. Fat chance i can get this done without a lift or the car higher up then on my stands. (Insert swearwords here). Try as i might, the transmission lines and the exhaust wont let me to it without major aggravation. ad

OK, call the mechanic, ask him nicely about taking the car on short notice. Not happening for the week after. Okay fine, we have public transport. So one week of that, plus the wife driving us (I usually drop off my daughter at school before going to work). Last Saturday drop off the car at his place, about 20 minutes away. He promises he will have it done Monday. Excellent.. Enjoy the weekend.

Today, he calls and car is done. Sweet. Leave work an hour early, take train to the shop. Long face on his end. Uh Oh. Whats up? As he was driving it out, it did it again. mad So, here we are, in speaking with him, he suggests the only other item not been swapped yet: The switch/relay (Sorry haven't even looked it up yet) on the steering column. Fine. So he calls the parts place and it will be with him Wednesday. Me taking train back home, sulking..

Here we go again.. :eyerole The joys of owning a 32 year old car. And LOVING IT !


Stefan

 

[Mac]

Remember... don't feed 'em after midnight and don't get 'em wet...

Mac

Gremlins

 

[82ColEd]

Thanks Mac.. :L


And by the way, the darn thing is named: Ignition Switch, sits on top of the steering column and seems to have an issue sliding the terminals as needed either when warm or it's oxidized. Small piece, not expensive but a bear to get to with all the other stuff floating about. I could probably do that one as well. Single terminal, snip the cable tie holding it in place (probably screws), swap, and backwards, but as the car is already at his place i get to pay for the pleasure.. :eyerole

One more thing though: With the replaced starter, it sounded a bit rougher then before when it did start. Not grinding or so, but not as smooth as before with the old worn one. Anything to worry about? Or is this just "breaking it in"?

 

[Mac]

One more thing though: With the replaced starter, it sounded a bit rougher then before when it did start. Not grinding or so, but not as smooth as before with the old worn one. Anything to worry about? Or is this just "breaking it in"?

That sounds like an alignment issue to me. Sometimes replacement starters don't mate up perfectly. Worried? Well, it will wear out the teeth on both your new starter and your flywheel more quickly so let's go with yes... I would be concerned.... :ugh

Mac

 

[82ColEd]

That sounds like an alignment issue to me. Sometimes replacement starters don't mate up perfectly. Worried? Well, it will wear out the teeth on both your new starter and your flywheel more quickly so let's go with yes... I would be concerned.... :ugh

Mac

k, i'll have another listen when i get the car again and mention it (carefully) while there. :ugh

 

[kpic]

Could be engagement, go to Youtube and search for how to shim a starter.
The films will give you an idea of what is going on. The starter has a gear which engages the ring gear on the flywheel. If, the starter is too deep or too shallow etc. from it's mounting surface; it can make odd noises.

As angularity is affected, the above is the short form

 

[82ColEd]

Okay, here is the update you all been waiting for :L
Regarding the starter: Thanks kpic, saw the shimming video, but without a lift, definitely not something i can do. But, i think it's just my ear to be honest. I was used to NOT hearing the starter at all, just the turning of the motor. Now, i hear the whizz of the starter engaging. Sounds smooth, but unusual. I'll keep an ear on that.

So, i picked up the car last Thursday. Starts and starts and starts..

But of course nothing is easy. Now i got alarm gremlins. Need to find time to dig into that. <sigh> i had a Chapman installed a few years back in the USA, after they stole my T-Tops twice. Now, when i drive, she blips, alarms, blips every few minutes. The Car starts fine, except the radio clock is not on, so the alarm must do something to the Courtesy stuff.. :eyerole The alarm is kind of pointless here in Germany, but i didn't want to rip it out due to all the connections that are done, but maybe it's time. We shall see..

So, due to my bad troubleshooting, things done in order:
- Replace Battery myself
- Replace Alternator myself
- Replace Starter
- Replace Ignition Switch
plus labor for starter and switch replacement...

And of course the cheapest part was the cause of it. Battery was at least 8, so dont feel bad about replacing it.. Ah well, live and learn..


Stefan

PS:
Speaking of Gremlins:
:L