Accusump pre oiler

[BoeingMan]

New member and would like to say hello to everyone
...Hi All :0)

I was wondering if anyone has tried to install a pre oiler of the type Accusump sells (or any type pre oiler) on a C5.

I would like to install one but wanted to get some advise from anyone who has some. Accusump sent me the parts list that I needed. All parts would cost about 450 dollars total.

They suggested to tap into the oil system either through an existing oil plug on the engine block (does anyone know where one exists, accusump says there should be a few access holes pluged with screw type plugs)or to use their oil filter adapter kit wich would tap into the oil system via the oil filter mount.

Don't really want to use the oil filter adapter kit. It's suppose to fit in between the block and filter thereby lowering the filter about 1 and 1/2 inch. Being that the underside of the C5 is basically flat, I don't really want the oil filter sticking out 1 1/2 inches...

Any coments/suggestions??

:eyerole

 

[les]

Hi BoeingMan, I'm not familiar with a pre-oiler. What does it do for 450$. :confused

 

[BoeingMan]

in a nut shell...

A pre oiler pressurizes your engine with oil before you start the engine. It bathes the engine with oil prior to starting it minimizing engine wear.

Next time you start your vette take a note at how many seconds goes by without any oil presure on your gauge. I clocked my gauge with zero press for two seconds and come winter it may be as long as three secs.

If you start your car every day it may or may not be a big deal due to some residual oil sticking to the engine's internal parts over a night or two. But for those that do not start the car for a week or so well there is bound to be more metal to metal contact within the engine upon initial start.

Accusump uses an accumulator type resorvoir to store it's oil. It releases it under presure by means of an electrical switch that you throw before you start your engine. After you start your engine it recharges itself with engine oil all by itself. Accumulator type preoilers have other benefits as well but it is the pre oiling I'm most interested in....

You can read more about pre oilers at:
http://www.accusump.com/ or:
http://www.thinkauto.com/accumulators.htm


Theory has it that as much as 40 to 45 percent (or even more) of engine wear takes place during engine starting. So I wanted to install a pre oiler in my new vette...


Hope this answer your question
Matt

 

[BoeingMan]

Look Cool

Oh almost forgot Les , They also look pretty cool in your engine bay

have Fun

 

[JBsC5]

Does this product help in controlling oil starvation in high lateral G manuveurs? (sp)

Whats the projected installation time?

Any down sides?

Thanks

 

[BoeingMan]

hope this helps you

I believe that GM solved the oil starvation problem during hard corner by adding baffles inside the oil pan...

However, yes accumulators protect against against drops in oil pressures.

An accumulator is basically a cylinder with a piston inside it. On one side of the piston there is an aircharge that acts against the piston always wanting to extend it. On the other side you have your fluid medium (engine oil, but can be used for any fluid or even other gases). If pressure drops on the fluid side (fluid side is plumed into your engine oil system) the air chrarge inside the accumulator is free to extend thereby presurizing your engine block. This is a simplistic way to explain this but in essence this is exactly what they do.

That being said, if gaurding against oil starvation/pressure is your main concern then one of the larger capacity accumulators would preferably be used (the 3 quart accumulator would be ideal for the C5 but talk to the experts at accusump first).

I can't think of any major down side with using a pre oiler. You do have to remember to flick the switch to open the valve before you start your engine and remember to flick the swith to close the valve (to conserve the oil pressure charge)before you shut the engine down.

Installation is where my own questions lie and is why I generated the original post. If I can locate an existing oil galley somewhere on the engine then the rest should be a peice of cake. I would guesstamate an installation time of about 2 hrs.

drive on

 

[Tom Bryant]

I have never seen an Acusump on a street driven car but I'm sure someone has used it. They are quite common on road racers though. It's a good idea if you are a serious autocrosser or road racer. If you can pull enough lateral Gs to uncover your oil pump pickup the Accusump will supply oil long inough for the pump to prime again. Might save an engine. Using synthetic oil I can't see much bebefit on a street Corvette.

 

[BoeingMan]

Agree almost

Hi Tom, I would tend to agree with you about oil starvation and hard lateral G issues...

My main concern is having nice shot of oil pressure before starting a cold dry engine (or even a warm dry engine in the summer time).

Using synthetic oil, as we all do, does reduce engine wear but does most of it's protection while the engine is actually running.

Synthetic oil has never claimed to stick to internal engine parts for extended periods of time. The oil will drain back to the pan leaving a thinner and thinner film behind the longer the engine sits.

I used to be a jet engine mechanic (still hold a valid mechanics license even) and know that oil is always fed first to the engine before it actually comes up on speed.

I understand there are non beleivers and they may be correct but In my humble opinion I would prefer the extra measure of protection a pre oiler provides.

So I'm still looking for anybody that has installed one before and where did they tap into the engine block...

gentlemen start your engines

 

[les]

O.K. , I sure know a lot more about pre-oilers now, thanks. I hope someone here can answer your questions. Good luck!

 

[Tom Bryant]

Matt,

I think that the pre oiler is a good idea if you plan to keep your car forever or just spent mega bucks on a custom engine. I have seen them mounted in the interior on the roll cage lowers in racers and I remember some under hood shots in Hot Rod years ago. On the older small block you could use one of the two plugs commonly used for oil pressure senders. They would have to be drilled and tapped larger but would be an ideal spot. I'm not that familiar with the LS1 engine and don't know where the plugs might be.

Excuse me for not saying this earlier but welcome to the Corvette Action Center. This is a great thread and I'm almost supprised that someone hasn't thought about them before.

Tom

 

[BoeingMan]

Thanks very much Tom,

Thanks very much for the "Welcome Aboard Tom"

Yeah your right about it being a good idea if you plan on keeping your Vette for a mighty long time or having had spent mega bucks for a custom engine...

I kind of look at it this way... I did spend mega bucks for a custom engine that just happened to come with a brand new 2002 Corvette Roadster body shell attached to it.

Thanks for the info you posted it helps

Floor it

 

[twiget]

I have to echo Tom's sentiments, this is a very interesting thread. Falls into the catagory of "learn something new every day"

Also, welcome to the CACC. Here's a cold one on me.

Jason

 

[rick7402]

Being an aircraft mech,I believe your money would be better spent just doing frequent oil changes and regular maintenance. Unless you have a specific need, it just doesn't seem necessary. Remember with accumulators the precharge varies with temperature. That is why aircraft use nitrogen. There is also more potential for leaks internal(accumulator bleed down into oil) and external connections. Don't get me wrong it sounds good at first but unless you doing high G maneuvers or driving upside down to require a positive feed its not needed. As for engine starts it would be better used on a turbo engine which really need oil desperately. If as much wear occurs at startup as they say most engines would fail at 10,000 miles. I'm just trying to save you some time, hassle, and money. Just my 2 cents.

Rick

 

[c4c5specialist]

HI there,
Ok, now I get to come in and tell you that it really doesnt do anything, but protect cars that may not be started for 6 months.
Based on the following information, synthetic film resistance levels are some of the best in the industry. Resistance to shearing out under pressure is one of the reasons for this.
So, with that in mind, if I may share some experiences with the Gen 3 engine.
Overhaul 1, reason for overhaul, heads and camshaft. Mileage, 66,311. Now, under teardown, the engine showed all crosshatch, under the entire cylinder bore. There was one slight area, at the top of the bore, just a the ring transition point, where it always is. Oil change intervals, follwing the oil life monitor on the DIC. Bore taper- .00142 top to bottom.
Overhaul 2, reason for overhaul, oil consumption, and rering, per GM technical service information. Mileage, 30514. Under teardown, there was not even ring transition marks at the top of the bore, probably due to the oil getting past the rings. High carbon build up, however, nothing else. Oil change intervals, following DIC oil life monitor also. Bore taper- .00063.
You may draw your own conclusions from this, however, under normal maintenance, and heavy driving, hello Steve, they all show virtually no wear.
Headers and exhaust would be my first move, however, just my .02.
YoursinCorvette, c4c5

 

[BoeingMan]

Thanks for your input Rick

Thanks for the input Rick,

Yeah Rick I agree it isn't absolutly necessary to install one of these units in every vehicle....


Thanks for the input on the temparature Vs pressure as it applies to a pre charge within an accumulator, but I don't think it is of huge concern enough to render an accumulator useless. The operating environment of an accumlator just doesn't get that hot or that cold inside the engine bay of an automobile to affect the accumulators working pressure even if you use plane shop air for the pre charge. I would bet lots of money that the pre charge pressure inside of an accumulator in automotive use varied by more than 10 to 15psi maximum due to temparature changes. This is not enough of a variation to disable an accumulator.

I agree all accumulators, with age, do bleed down some but it's just a matter of checking the precharge pressure via the attached pressure gauge once in a while. Checking the pre charge pressure is part of the maintainace of any accumaulator. If you start loosing some pressure just recharge it at the local gas station as you would a tire. When the seals inside the accumulator are completely wasted however just get you another one for about 100 bucks a peice. You don't have to by a whole new system just the accumulator. As far as causing any damage to the engine as a result of the pre charge air escaping into the engine oil sump, hec, there is always some air inside an engine so hardly any chance exists of damaging the engine if some of the air escapes. Thats what engine oil breathers are for (they vent excess gases to the atmosphere). As far as external leaks just keep your nuts tight and use a good thread sealer when making the initial install I would say.

As for the use of nitrogen Vs air, aircraft use nitrogen because it contains less water than air making it a more stable gas (it is also an inert gas wich acts as a fire retardant...and the aviation community loves anything that is fire retardant) with less tendency for it to freeze at altitude where temperatures can reach 70 degrees F below zero affecting the way an accumulator works.( At those frigid temparatures water precipitate out of the air causing it to form ice crystals ect ect ect .... ) But as I said before we don't operate the corvette under those extremes of temperatures, so I don't see any problem with using plane old shop air for the pre charge.

I do agree with you about not needing an accumulator to keep a positive head of pressure during high G manuvers on this vehicle.... I beleive GM has solved this problem with baffles in the oil pan...

About your 10,000 mile theory... I don't think that's the correct logic to use here... The 40/45% engine wear figures are meant to suggest that if you needed say, for example, new rings or valves due to engine wear, that 40/45% of what ever caused that wear could have been reduced by diligent use of a pre oiler thereby extending engine life/performance by about that amount.

Thanks Rick for your advise you did bring up some good things to think about ...


rev em up

 

[BoeingMan]

NIce Info C4CC5

Thanks C4C5 the numbers you quoted are very interesting. Thanks for taking the time out to post.

I'll querry around further for some real time information about actual engine wear on these engines.

Also impressed with your memory...that you remembered the exact numbers relating to wear on those two tear downs that you did.

Curious did the camshafts and other internals parts fare as well under tear down?

Again this helps alot C4C5 thanks much


Hit it :gap

 

[Vettelt193]

...as much wear occurs at startup as they say most engines would fail at 10,000 miles.

If you compare an engine that is never shut down, constantly used to one that is used like a normal car, whith shut downs and startups, the ever running engine would outlast the regular use engine in both running hours and miles on the vehicle

 

[Tom Bryant]

Re: NIce Info C4CC5

.

Also impressed with your memory...that you remembered the exact numbers relating to wear on those two tear downs that you did.

:gap

I'm sure all of this information was well documented in the warranty files. Not just for the benefit of the Warranty Rep. but this info also goes back to the engineers who are very interested in exactly what is found when an engine has to come apart. With roller lifters I would expect to see practically no camshaft lobe wear.

Tom

 

[secondchance]

Check out this site. This is more involved but may be more effective.
www.preluber.com

 

[c4c5specialist]

HI there,
Please, I have no memory.
I maintain records, of my own, on every Corvette I service, as part of my commitment to my customers. I will document any abnormal wear, for correct tolerancing of the engine.
These are only 2 of a total of 61 engines totally opened, for one reason or another.
Cam wear was nill on both, because if I have any doubt, I replace parts, you can NOT guess.
Bearings, all ok.
Rocker tips, ok.
Everything that was replace was shown above, with a correct new gasket kit.
That is the only reason that I can post the numbers.
So, with that in mind, I hope it helps you.
c4c5