All things considered, Has gasoline gotten better or worse ?

[killain]

I was wondering since the one thing we have NO control over, has gasoline gotten better or worse since the FY 1997 ? I know that in many places E-85 is popping like dandelions, and 93 octane is fading away when up high above seas levels places like in Colorado , But since 93 octane cost' $.409 here on the east coast, ya gotta wonder what the heck your buying ? ad

 

[John Mekisich]

Gas Quality

Here in the San Francisco Bay Area the best we can get is 91 octane at a cost of approximately $4.45 for a Top Tier brand. I believe gas quality is getting worse from a car enthusiasts standpoint. The more ethanol they add the more issues there will be with rubber parts breaking down which definately will cause major fuel system issues in older cars.................................

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

I don't think any Corvette requires fuel with an octane rating higher than 91 AKI and don't know of any other cars that do, for that matter. I sometimes wonder why the refineries produce 93 or the 94 we can get here.

Hopefully in the next few years the unwarranted concerns over E10 will fade away. The planned roll out of E15 has hit so many stumbling blocks I wouldn't be surprised if it gets cancelled completely.

 

[LLC5]

I was wondering since the one thing we have NO control over, has gasoline gotten better or worse since the FY 1997 ? I know that in many places E-85 is popping like dandelions, and 93 octane is fading away when up high above seas levels places like in Colorado , But since 93 octane cost' $.409 here on the east coast, ya gotta wonder what the heck your buying ? ad

With Ethanol we are going backwards for fuel economy and performance on a vehicle not specifically designed to run on it. The detergent packages are better now with the Top Tier fuel available. You are really lucky at $.409 a gallon for 93 octane, I have never seen it less than $.50 a gallon and I am old. Just kidding, I know what you meant. In my area 92 octane is all I can get, and it is $4.20-4.30 a gallon. Oil companies want their money back from the '08-'09 debacle.

 

[hcbph]

Gas

I personally think it's worse than in the past - more alcohol, no lead, higher prices. All so different than when I was young. That's one reason when I went looking for my Vette last summer, I looked for a L98 with 9.5-1 CR so I could use 87 octane (it's a cruiser).

 

[kpic]

In time, it will be either lower octane or E-85. Methanol (wood alcohol) and water will be our "friend." [h=1][/h]

 

[Antz81]

Here in the San Francisco Bay Area the best we can get is 91 octane at a cost of approximately $4.45 for a Top Tier brand. I believe gas quality is getting worse from a car enthusiasts standpoint. The more ethanol they add the more issues there will be with rubber parts breaking down which definately will cause major fuel system issues in older cars.................................

91 is the best you can get? Am I reading that right?
91 is the lowest grade I can get. Other grades are 95 and 98. E10 is not very popular over here and only available at a few places. Apart from that one brand that sells E10 it's all ethanol free.
But we'll also pay $6.66 per gallon for 91

 

[hcbph]

Fuel

91 is the best you can get? Am I reading that right?

Where I live -yes unless you can lay your hands on some racing fuel or av gas.

Quite a change from the days when you could get Super Shell or Sunoco 260! Used to have a motorcycle (many many years ago) that lived on that stuff due to the compression it ran. It was a bear to kick start (and somewhat dangerous at times), but would run without knocking on those two brands/grades of fuel. Back in that age, leaded regular ran about $.33 unless there was a gaswar on, then it could be under $.20. I think premium was another $.10 - $.15 more, and that's when the gas station attendants filled your tank, cleaned your windshield and checked your oil for you.

You could buy SS Chevelle's, GTO's and Hemi Cuda's right off the dealer lots

Boy have times changed, not necessarily for the better IMO.

 

[kpic]

Where I live -yes unless you can lay your hands on some racing fuel or av gas.

Quite a change from the days when you could get Super Shell or Sunoco 260! Used to have a motorcycle (many many years ago) that lived on that stuff due to the compression it ran. It was a bear to kick start (and somewhat dangerous at times), but would run without knocking on those two brands/grades of fuel. Back in that age, leaded regular ran about $.33 unless there was a gaswar on, then it could be under $.20. I think premium was another $.10 - $.15 more, and that's when the gas station attendants filled your tank, cleaned your windshield and checked your oil for you.

You could buy SS Chevelle's, GTO's and Hemi Cuda's right off the dealer lots

Boy have times changed, not necessarily for the better IMO.

hcbph,
You really said it!

I wonder how many people know Sunoco 260 was blue? Or seen the octane warning sticker on a 1969 Corvette's console?

As I owned cars during the good old days; it would be interesting to see what they would (or wouldn't do ) with today's pump gas.

IMO, times haven't changed for the better.

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

91 is the best you can get? Am I reading that right?
91 is the lowest grade I can get. Other grades are 95 and 98. E10 is not very popular over here and only available at a few places. Apart from that one brand that sells E10 it's all ethanol free.
But we'll also pay $6.66 per gallon for 91

North America has a different rating system than the rest of the world. Up till the mid 70s, gasoline was rated according to the Research Octane Number (RON). For reasons I've long forgotten, the system here was changed to the Anti Knock Index (AKI) which is the average of RON and MON (motor octane number).

91 AKI fuel has about the same resistance to detonation as 95 RON. 93 AKI is about the same as 97-98 RON.

Many people are unaware of the change-over in system which leads to the confusion about gas 'being better in the old days'. Only the L88 equipped Corvettes needs anything higher than 98 RON (today's 93 AKI) but they really weren't seen on the street too much.

Corvettes from about 1971 onwards were built to run on regular (87 AKI) unleaded fuel.

 

[Antz81]

QUOTE=Vettehead Mikey;1150419]North America has a different rating system than the rest of the world. Up till the mid 70s, gasoline was rated according to the Research Octane Number (RON). For reasons I've long forgotten, the system here was changed to the Anti Knock Index (AKI) which is the average of RON and MON (motor octane number).

91 AKI fuel has about the same resistance to detonation as 95 RON. 93 AKI is about the same as 97-98 RON.

Many people are unaware of the change-over in system which leads to the confusion about gas 'being better in the old days'. Only the L88 equipped Corvettes needs anything higher than 98 RON (today's 93 AKI) but they really weren't seen on the street too much.

Corvettes from about 1971 onwards were built to run on regular (87 AKI) unleaded fuel.[/QUOTE]

I'm one of those people that was unaware of the change-over.
Now that I do know I wonder if I should start using a higher grade. (I'm aware there may be no benefit)

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

I'm one of those people that was unaware of the change-over.
Now that I do know I wonder if I should start using a higher grade. (I'm aware there may be no benefit)

No- your car will operate at full potential using 87AKI or 91 RON fuel. Higher octane levels is just money flushed down the drain.

 

[hcbph]

Misc

I wonder how many people know Sunoco 260 was blue?

I didn't remember that!

Or seen the octane warning sticker on a 1969 Corvette's console?

As I owned cars during the good old days; it would be interesting to see what they would (or wouldn't do ) with today's pump gas.

IMO, times haven't changed for the better.

I looked at a 69 350/350 convertible in 1979 - now that was a fast car and used premium. Went for $3000 with full documentation
in 1968 I had a chance at a 289 Shelby (the real one), dealer listed for $6000, that's when loaded new Impala's went for around $3500
If I could have had my Dad sign (I was under age), a 66 SS396 4 speed leftover in 1967 for a little over $3000 (family member was a dealer).
I did have a 55 Dodge pickup with a transplanted Firedome Hemi in it back around 1971, predated the Little Red Truck by a few years.

If they could have been purchased and saved, imagine what they would be worth today!

Ah to relive the dreams
Paul

 

[kpic]

Only the L88 equipped Corvettes needs anything higher than 98 RON (today's 93 AKI) but they really weren't seen on the street too much.

In the early 1960s, "fast" cars were built by people who knew how to work on cars and usually accompanied by an engine swap. A bud had a 50(?) Chevy convertible with a 348 3x2 and there were a lot of 55-56 Chevies with 327s.
In the late 1960s, anyone with good credit could own a muscle car. A guy who couldn't change spark plugs bought a 289 Mustang and whipped most of the "fast" cars in the area. I guess that didn't sit too well with the guys who used to rule the streets when their engine swap and hard work was beaten by a factory muscle car.
My 66 Corvette was a 327, then a 350, next was a built (not by me) 396 with aluminum rectangular port heads. It was a junkyard engine which died shortly thereafter. Fortunately, I hadn't sold the 350, so it was bored and stroked, heads flowed by Tony Feil. The stroked 350 and 396 would knock on any less than Sunoco 260 or Amoco. The 427 Camaro was a beast. My mother once said I would never own anything but a fast car; thankfully I proved her wrong.
Things are different today, but in it's day the 103 was needed. Now, we have knock sensors and modern electronics which change matters. However, if the only gas available is 91, a blower motor will have less than one fed 93. Meth/water changes that, but adds another 3-5 to the bill and another dyno pull.


Although you are correct, the L88 Corvette Corvette wasn't that common. Probably more a result of the option costing over $1K than lack of desire. OTOH, there were cars which could beat them and by a couple of lengths.

I've never been a member of AA, but I am a reformed street racer. If someone aggravates me enough, I still will get on it; however, not for money. We have a deal, she supports my insane love of recoil and torque, but no money racing.

Paul,
It was a special time. I sounds as if we could name a car then self kick ourselves for passing it by or selling it.

Hemis were and are special. I shyed away from them as except for rejetting and changing the advance curve; modifying them was a lot more expensive than GM, Ford or anything Chrysler corp made except the Hemi.

Most of the ones I owned were as the saying goes were bubba'd. Back in the day there was two types of Corvettes; the first was an unmodified car and the second was called a driver. My 66 was a driver, or no numbers matching. A 350 replaced the 327, an M22 replaced the M21, and a 4.88 replaced whatever was there. Depending on one's interest either could be worth more than the other.
The Corvettes went bye bye with kids for a new to us 84 Z28 which lost the 305 for a 350 with a bottle and the whatever was swapped a 3.73. I bought the 97 a while ago and the centrifugal is waiting for plant shut down.

 

[hcbph]

Days of old

I hear you. Pretty much any engine back in those day with around 11-1 cr or better needed either water injection (which wasn't too good in those days) or octane like Super Shell to not sound like a bucket of rocks because they knocked so bad, or backed off the timing so bad they barely ran.
The young ones today don't realize just what it took for some of the things like mixing engines and transmissions or engines to chassis. There wasn't adapter kits for the most part, you learned to use sawzalls, heat wrenches and spliced out driveshafts youself (wasn't smart enough to realize it needed to be true and balanced till after the first one). Making engine and transmission mounts from 1/4" plate steel, rigging shifters through a hole in the floor using #9 wire to work the shifter. You also didn't need a degree in electrical engineering to get it to run - long as you had gas, spark and air it ran. Need to fit another set of wheels, you went into the machineshop and redrilled the hubs for a different lugbolt pattern. Forget about things like rigging up a speedometer, you only needed a tach. Wiring was a ratsnest but as long as it ran, who cared
Your best friend was someone that had a relative with a junkyard. I lived in a couple and spent many a day comparing and scrounging parts to get a car or truck on the road (now that was fun!). You and your buddies helped each other. If one could weld, that's what he did. If another could do some machine work, all the better. Even if you didn't know alot, you could always be muscle. Once you got a car running, everyone jumped in to see how fast and straight it ran. One thing that always seemed minor was brakes, you went fast but never seemed to worry about stopping, that's what ditches were for otfl

 

[kpic]

Back in the day, engines lacked knock sensors. If one was going to make a mistake; it was best to be mistaken by using higher octane.
Even though we made less, gas was inexpensive. Once 5 of us went to the city and passed the hat for gas. As I had never filled a tank, I said $13; the man said your tank is only 20. Being a kid, I said OK but stop at $13. LOL

Today, you can buy almost anything which is really cool. The tradeoff is to do what one once did, now one needs to know computers, electrical, and mechanical. I had an Accel distributor, after removing the point table, the weights had socket head screws to change the advance. Today one needs a handheld tuner or computer and a $600 program or pay for dyno time.

One of the "gang's" father owned the junkyard. In the beginning he was the man. As time passed, others became machinists, engineers, welders and he collected back rent.