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C1 hood scoop - opinions

cbernhardt

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Below is a picture of the hood scoop I have mocked up for my '59 project. Should I extend the opening more forward toward the front of the hood? Opinions welcome.
Charles
11060521.jpg
 

IH2LOSE

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Boy Charles,thats not what I exspected from your desription of an open front.

What I did when designing mine for the tri power .

I got the dimentions from Barry grant how high up the air cleaner top was from the intake manifold gally. I then hot glued popsicle sticks on my existing manifold to the height Barry Grant gave me.

From there I knew what my maximum height was.I then added a 1/2" for clearance. The hood I made for my car I feel is very square and angular and does not look correct for a C1 as there are no square or angular lines on the car. I am going to redo my hood as soon as I get my tri power set up and i am going to use a C5 or C4 hood as a donnor (I am using the C5 or C4 hood because of the split down the middle of the hood and its curvyness)and then make it more round to follow with the original lines of the car.

After seeing the new Z06 i am going to install a simular scoop in the front.
 
S

studiog

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I hesitate to to comment on someone's hard work but my first impression is that the scoop is overly rounded in the front. Hard to judge from just one picture angle. The car looks great. Do you have a target for painting?
 

cbernhardt

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studiog:
Not sure what you mean by "overly rounded in the front". Do you mean that you think the top of the scoop should be flatter? Here are my two initial designs from a rendered CAD drawing. If I extend the opening forward like picture on the left, I can flatten the top of the scoop considerably. Unfortunately I need about 4" above the stock hood to clear the top of my air filter
hood_scoops.jpg
 

WayneC

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I'd envision it looking better if it came forward about 6 inches more, and if the top surface matched the hood surface contour. Ie, as if you cut out a section from another hood 12 or 16 inches wide down the center from rear to front, stopping 12 to 15 inches from the front edge, set that strip a few inches above your hood, then gently blend from that to the outside of the raised "spears" kinda like a 396 hood along the sides. The rear could be like a 427 hood except follow the shape of the cowl vent, and the front mimic a 427 hood except with a wider opening (not higher opening); perhaps use a pair of 427 trim inserts trimmed & tweaked to make one wider insert?

Very much like what IH2LOSE did, except with softer rounded side contours blending the spears to the scoop top, and with a wide Z06/427-like scoop in front and a 427-like rear opening (although it would be best to block it off forward of the rear edge so you aren't dumping engine heat into the cowl vent, and keep it low as possible there to try not to completely block the airflow into the cowl vent... you might even consider built-in hidden enclosed ducts beneath the scoop on both sides, joined in the rear to direct cool air into the cowl vent).

Edit after your post, above: wow, 4 inches is a lot, and will likely block the cowl vent. Neat rendering... I'd suggest moving the front opening back 5 or 6 inches (on the lower sketch), bring the scoop surface (gently) lower at the front, as well, maybe 1.5 to 2 inches off the hood surface, widen the upper surface a bit, blend the opening forward a inch or two to the spears on each side, and and blend/round the sides more if possible.
 

IH2LOSE

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WOW Charles that 4" is an ugly dimention,thats tall and going to be difacult to make disapeer or look correct.So I would suggest trying to llessen that 4"dimention. What I have on my car now is a drop down 1966 big block air cleaner assembly. This really saved some room compaired to a standard flat air cleaner set up.

If you wish I can loan you this air cleaner to mock up your hood and to see if it would save you some room under the hood.

If I was not switching to tri power I would have purchased one of the K&N breath thru air cleaner lids because it looks like this air cleaner set up restrics air into the motor,(all though I never noticed it on my 66)

So I am looking at your hood photo and I dont know if you did it intentionally but,the leading edge of your scoop kinda mimics the grill opening.If it was intentional I would continue on that thought so it looks like it belongs.

I dont have to tell you this but 4" is a tough dimention to overcome,Some how it has to blend in and look like it belongs,As I was building the 62 I always looked at everything I did on my 62 with the hopes that nothing stuck out and caught my attention if any one thing caught my attention I would change it so that the end result was when I looked at the car it just looked like a car with nothing glairing out at me.
 

IH2LOSE

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Actually let me tell you Charles from your original descrition what I invisioned in my head of your hood.

I thought you were going to pull the scoop all the way down to where the spears started and then leave that area open maybee 3/4 of an inch open the entire area between the spears but matching the rake/roundedness of the spears leading edge. this is what I pictured.

Good luck Sir
 

IH2LOSE

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Well I am now at home and can see your cad pictures along with the top photo.,my computer at work displays very dark.

Anyways the cad drawing on the left is what i pictured but not as tall.

Also the more I see your photo on the top now that its brighter.the more I like it.
 

firstgear

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I just bought a C1 hood with Cowl induction.....not sure if I am going to use it or not, but thought that this was cheaper than anything that I might come up with and this way I wouldn't have to cut up my original hood and if I didn't like the look, then I would just sell it....anyways....here are some pictures of it....don't have it yet....hopefully it is on the way.....

newhood1-vi.jpg


newhood2-vi.jpg


newhood3-vi.jpg



If I use it I will probably get rid of the hood pin holes and go back to the regular latch mechanism......the cowl adds 3 inches of clearance over the stock hood....the back side of the hood is pretty rough, so if I decide to use it, it needs to look as good and smooth as the top side so some work will be needed there.....with shipping will have paid about $300....don't know if that was too much or not.....but figured if it didn't work out someone would want it, if not what I paid for it but something close and if I used it, I was somehow probably money ahead....comments????????
 

IH2LOSE

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Herb I paid over 4 hundred for the hood I had on a carlise and there was over 3 days labor in it to make the needed repairs on it.thats not even counting the hours I spent making a new bosses for the hinges to bolt up to.
 

cbernhardt

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firstgear:
I have a hood that appears to be the same as the one you just bought. Below is a picture of the hood on my '59. Does the underside of your hood have any provision for attaching the hinges? Mine had only two small pads that had been filled in with body filler. Not sure how anyone could have attached hinges to it. I removed the pads and fabricated some fiberglass supports like the original hoods used. Mine also had no provision for attaching the latches in the rear. I guess you were supposed to use pins like your hood shows.
I hope your hood fits better than mine did. At first it would not even go down into the hood opening. Someone had obviously been grinding on the sides of the lip or ledge that runs along each side (underneath the top skin) in order to get it to fit. I had to trim about 1/4" off of this lip to get it to fit inside the body opening. Then, when I finally got it to fit into the opening, the top skin was not wide enough to properly fill the space. It would need about 1/4" added along the perimeter of the top skin to make it fit nicely up close to the fender skins. This is about the time I gave up on trying to make mine fit properly.
06100505.jpg
 

Tom Bryant

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Hot Rod did a test a while back and using a drop down base on a 14' by 3' air cleaner hurt hp and torque by a few numbers. The standard base worked better to smooth the airflow into the carb. Unfortunately in some cases the dropped base is all that will work.

If you have a 14" air cleaner and need a drop base I have a new one I'd sell. I have lots of room under the hood on my '69 stepside project so I'll be buying a standard base or possibly an offset base to clear a HEI cap. Dropped base will not clear an HEI.

Tom
 
S

studiog

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cbernhardt said:
studiog:
Not sure what you mean by "overly rounded in the front". Do you mean that you think the top of the scoop should be flatter? Here are my two initial designs from a rendered CAD drawing. If I extend the opening forward like picture on the left, I can flatten the top of the scoop considerably. Unfortunately I need about 4" above the stock hood to clear the top of my air filter
hood_scoops.jpg


The area lined in red is what I was referring to.
58hoodround.jpg
 

firstgear

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cbernhardt said:
firstgear:
I have a hood that appears to be the same as the one you just bought. Below is a picture of the hood on my '59. Does the underside of your hood have any provision for attaching the hinges? Mine had only two small pads that had been filled in with body filler. Not sure how anyone could have attached hinges to it. I removed the pads and fabricated some fiberglass supports like the original hoods used. Mine also had no provision for attaching the latches in the rear. I guess you were supposed to use pins like your hood shows.
I hope your hood fits better than mine did. At first it would not even go down into the hood opening. Someone had obviously been grinding on the sides of the lip or ledge that runs along each side (underneath the top skin) in order to get it to fit. I had to trim about 1/4" off of this lip to get it to fit inside the body opening. Then, when I finally got it to fit into the opening, the top skin was not wide enough to properly fill the space. It would need about 1/4" added along the perimeter of the top skin to make it fit nicely up close to the fender skins. This is about the time I gave up on trying to make mine fit properly.
06100505.jpg

I am hoping that I have it by the weekend, it is coming via Greyhound frieght (didnt even know that there was such a thing) from around St Louis I think to Cleveland ohio area....so perhaps by Friday....I am hoping.....

I am not sure how it will fit, I am hoping that it fits good...but you are right, I will have to put it in place to see.

From the photos I saw of the back side, the holes for the hinges appear to be there, whether or not the steel plate that the bolts attaches to is still there is another story. If I decide to use it the worse that would happen is I would have to open up the cavity and put new steel backer plates in place and then reglass back over it.....

The attachment points for the females latches did appear to be gone so that will require fussing with for sure since they went with pins on the hood.....not sure if I would still use latches or just jump to pins......years and years ago when I had a '66 VW Bug that I used to drag race I had a fiberglass hood that I would put on and off with pins where the hinges should have been, but used the front latch to hold down....in this case it would be the other way around.....still use the hinges but pins as the latch....not sure what I want to do.....

I do know from looking at the photos of the back side that the surface is VERY rough, and from a show perspective with the hood up I will want that surface to be as nice as the outside, so for sure some work needs to be done on the backside to clean that up if I want to use it......

Stand by....when it shows up I will take some photos on the car with it and give you a better report....

Herb
 

cbernhardt

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62 Conversion Car, Pewter 98, 59 Project
IH2LOSE said:
So Charles what are you thinking with your new found advice?
Well, since the height of my intake/carb/filter is pretty much fixed, there is not too much I can do on the overall height of the hood scoop. BTW, I do have a dropped base on my air filter and the car has a large cap HEI distributor. I have a 3" high filter and also a filtered cover. I'll have to check my clearances again and see if I can lower the center of the scoop. I'm not real sure how much clearance one of these filter tops should have. Guess I could call K&N and ask them. My original intent was to have the scoop opening more forward and narrower, so I'll try that and see how it looks. I will also try to match the stock hood contour a little better.

I guess I could just cut a hole in the hood and drive it that way for a while!

Below is a side view of the current design. I think the cowl vent should still get plenty of air.
11060526.jpg
 
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Charles
I'm looking at your last post with the sideview shot of the car and the hood scope.

First off, I have to agree with Gary that I think the front of your scoop, the curved section, needs to come forward a bit more. also, the back seems to drop off with a little too much slope. It seems to make it look too much like it's just a big bump on the hood. please don't get me wrong, The workmanship is great and I don't mean to critisize because I sure couldn't do what you did. I just think the lines don't flow correctly for a C1 car.

I have an idea, I just hope I can describe it well enough to convey what i mean......
Again, looking at your last picture of the side of the car, I noticed the rear side of the front wheel opening where the cove area starts and flows back. what if you designed a hood scoop following the same lines (from a side profile view). The top of the scoop would actually be more forward than the bottom of the scoop with the same slight curve to it same as the profile of the cove area as it meets into the wheel opening, and than follow the same angle of decent back towards the windshield.
I think if you follow what are already existing lines of the car and copy them on the hood scoop it will flow and blend into the car better.

Here is a pic of the car with the area I'm talking about drawn out in red..... sorry it isn't neater but I think it would be enough to help you understand what I'm trying to describe.

attachment.php
 

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