C6 Supernatural package

[Jeffvette]

So how much of that 14,000 is for the badging and floormats?

 

[racelance]

Pricing for the floor mats - click here.

Lance

 

[Jeffvette]

So 125 for the floormats. Where does the other 5k go in the package?

 

[*89x2*]

So 125 for the floormats. Where does the other 5k go in the package?

Jeff, when compared to what??

Are you looking at some other package elsewhere, and doing a side-by-side??


As an owner of past Callaway products, I can tell you that there is a certain value added for their packages, as they are well recognized and hold their values very nicely over time - Callaway Cars as I am sure you already know, engineers their cars to do exactly as advertised - sometimes more :cool

I hope the above helps -

 

[Jeffvette]

LPE

Engine removal inspection and cleaning for assembly
Lingenfelter CNC ported & polished LS2 cylinder heads2.02 / 1.57" one piece stainless steel intake & exhaust valves
Three angle valve job, hand blending of valve seatsCC chambers, surface, set spring heights and assembly
Competition Cams valve springs
Lingenfelter designed Competition Cams hydraulic roller camshaft
Modified oil pump assembly
Ported & polished throttle body
Low temperature thermostat
Corsa stainless steel cat back exhaust
ASP underdrive pulley system
All necessary gaskets fluids & boltsProfessional assembly & engine installation
Engine testing & expert ECM tuningChassis dyno testing before & after installation
Lingenfelter 2 year / 24,000 mile warranty

366 CID LS2 500 HP Package Price
Price - $7,695.00


So a 4,500 difference for:
Floor mats
Badging
Sill panels
Injector covers

 

[Vettelt193]

LPE

Engine removal inspection and cleaning for assembly
Lingenfelter CNC ported & polished LS2 cylinder heads2.02 / 1.57" one piece stainless steel intake & exhaust valves
Three angle valve job, hand blending of valve seatsCC chambers, surface, set spring heights and assembly
Competition Cams valve springs
Lingenfelter designed Competition Cams hydraulic roller camshaft
Modified oil pump assembly
Ported & polished throttle body
Low temperature thermostat
Corsa stainless steel cat back exhaust
ASP underdrive pulley system
All necessary gaskets fluids & boltsProfessional assembly & engine installation
Engine testing & expert ECM tuningChassis dyno testing before & after installation
Lingenfelter 2 year / 24,000 mile warranty

366 CID LS2 500 HP Package Price
Price - $7,695.00


So a 4,500 difference for:
Floor mats
Badging
Sill panels
Injector covers

+ the short throw shifter
+ the SS headers

I do agree... still not much difference to justify the $$

 

[Jeffvette]

+ the short throw shifter
+ the SS headers

I do agree... still not much difference to justify the $$

Shifter is maybe 200 bucks at most.

And the LPE package is making the same amount of power without the headers? or do the shorty headers not make any difference over stock?

 

[Aurora40]

LPE

<LPE stuff>

366 CID LS2 500 HP Package Price
Price - $7,695.00


So a 4,500 difference for:
Floor mats
Badging
Sill panels
Injector covers

There do appear to be some differences in the work listed, like the intake manifold, ignition wires, and the things you listed. I would also bet there is a price difference in the Corsa vs Callaway exhaust system. Plus there is a 1/12,000 mile difference in warranties.

In general on past cars it seems like Callaway and Lingenfelter tended to charge about the same as each other for similar work. In my humble opinion, I hold them both in similar esteem. Perhaps Callaway is breaking from that trend, perhaps they feel the name is worth more, perhaps it's just the incremental increases of the various differences? I don't really know. Possibly Callaway spent longer on R&D and thus has more cost to recoupe? I'm only guessing.

As to the horsepower comparisons, I don't think generally speaking that you can just compare two numbers from two companies like that. Maybe they boost power in a different place? Maybe they measure it differently? I dunno. It is possible that one will be tuned for on-road legal modification and carry a CARB approval? and the other won't? Thus it's harder to make the same level of power without more cost/stuff?

I would guess more specifics would have to come from asking more detailed questions of each company. I suppose the price difference is something a person will have to consider when it comes time to plunk the cash down and have their C6 modified.

 

[CallawayMV]

Please excuse the long post.

As the user id suggests, I work for Callaway. I thought I might offer our company’s perspective on this issue. It looks like there are some factors that may not be totally obvious. This thread certainly serves as a wake-up call to improve the way we describe the content of the SuperNatural Corvette package.

Before proceeding any further with this, please allow me to mention that Lingenfelter Performance Engineering is a well-respected competitor. I knew John personally and worked with him in introducing intake manifolds for the ACCEL/DFI product line in the 90’s. None of the following comparisons are intended to denigrate LPE, their products, or anyone who is employed there now.

I've attached a chart listing the similarities and differences in the two packages. The chart uses the LPE package description printed in this thread.

I’d like to suggest three major factors that differentiate the two approaches. Development Philosophy, Product Content, and Vehicle Documentation.

1. Development Philosophy –
A major reason for the difference in package content is Callaway’s product development philosophy. Since the late 70’s, Callaway has conducted several engineering projects for OEM manufacturers like Aston Martin, Mazda - North America, Holden Special Vehicles, and Chevrolet for the RPO B2K Twin Turbo Corvette, just to name a few. Consequently, we’ve developed an approach that dictates strict adherence to quantitative analysis, thorough testing and documentation, and comprehensive validation procedures. We tread a fine line to avoid “over-engineering” but, instead of selecting components from the aftermarket’s Corvette offerings, we design and manufacture most of the products that we sell. If we use outside sources for manufacturing, like for our wheels, brakes or coil over systems, we share CAD files and collaborate on design.

2. Product Content –
The chart also illustrates the difference in component selection. The additional content of the Callaway package is responsible for some of the disparity in pricing. There is also the accompanying installation labor cost. Our approach dictates that the finished product, in this case the SuperNatural Corvette, work as a refined road car: highly powered, but perfectly streetable. At a minimum, we must achieve OEM streetability. For example, to increase intake air, we include a high volume intake manifold instead of a ported throttlebody. It’s a more involved procedure and it’s more costly, but it avoids possible throttlebody-related trouble codes. As another example, we typically utilize less radical camshaft profiles for smoother idle and more usable torque; we rely on more sophisticated approaches to increase intake and exhaust efficiencies. Callaway’s approach also includes the use of premium materials and advanced manufacturing processes. This allows us to ensure extended product reliability and match GM’s 3 year/36,000 mile new car warranty.

3. Vehicle Documentation – Another significant difference between the two approaches is that the Callaway SuperNatural is prepared as a complete car, with accompanying badging, identification and documentation, including a Certificate of Authenticity and a dash plaque that includes the car’s VIN. As we’ve done for the Twin Turbo Corvette and C4 SuperNatural series, Callaway maintains a database of C6 SuperNatural Corvettes including among other pertinent information, vehicle equipment, critical dates, service history and ownership status.

Again, LPE is a fine company and they have built some very powerful cars. We’ve built some too. I trust that people won’t simply compare the price and horsepower numbers of the two packages without weighing the value of all of the details, considering their importance as well.

 

[racelance]

CallawayMV-

I'm glad that you stepped in to explain the details, only Callaway would be able to answer the questions on this thread properly. I'm extremely satisfied with my SuperNatural & I would highly recommend it to any Corvette enthusiast considering doing modifications to their car(s). I feel Callaway brings value to the car immediately and I love the fact that the long-term potential value is very promising compared to just another modified Corvette. In my book, the name “Callaway” says it all. I feel that the simple theory of supply & demand comes into play – all Callaway cars are numbered and I feel confident they will escalate in value as time progresses.

I thank you for a job well done & truly appreciate and understand the work that is involved in making one hell of a fun ride! Time to go outside and bang some gears!

Lance Miller

 

[invinceablevett]

CallawayMV-

I'm glad that you stepped in to explain the details, only Callaway would be able to answer the questions on this thread properly. I'm extremely satisfied with my SuperNatural & I would highly recommend it to any Corvette enthusiast considering doing modifications to their car(s). I feel Callaway brings value to the car immediately and I love the fact that the long-term potential value is very promising compared to just another modified Corvette. In my book, the name “Callaway” says it all. I feel that the simple theory of supply & demand comes into play – all Callaway cars are numbered and I feel confident they will escalate in value as time progresses.

I thank you for a job well done & truly appreciate and understand the work that is involved in making one hell of a fun ride! Time to go outside and bang some gears!

Lance Miller

....Thank you for your input as a satisfied customer....Please let us know what your 0-60 and 1/4 mile times were if you had the chance to bring your mean-machine to the track.Nothing promotes a product better than a satisfied customer.

 

[*89x2*]

CallawayMV-

I'm glad that you stepped in to explain the details, only Callaway would be able to answer the questions on this thread properly. I'm extremely satisfied with my SuperNatural & I would highly recommend it to any Corvette enthusiast considering doing modifications to their car(s). I feel Callaway brings value to the car immediately and I love the fact that the long-term potential value is very promising compared to just another modified Corvette. In my book, the name “Callaway” says it all. I feel that the simple theory of supply & demand comes into play – all Callaway cars are numbered and I feel confident they will escalate in value as time progresses.

I thank you for a job well done & truly appreciate and understand the work that is involved in making one hell of a fun ride! Time to go outside and bang some gears!

Lance Miller

First, please allow me to say welcome Mike Vendetto, Commercial Manager of Callaway Cars to the and Callaway Forum
I agree especially w/ the point about Callaway engineering their components and packages vs. simply picking what other companies offer in catalogs and forming a combo that makes power :cool

Second, I certainly feel the same as Lance, on the matter at hand and as one who has owned both, I still have the Callaway(s) - no surprise, right

While both products are excellent and run strong, the LPE based engine I had in my F-body was always a bit brash when compared to say, our SuperNatural - I also had a hard time getting any doccumentation on anything after the fact - when I went to sell, fortunately the new owner remembered the car (and the engine transplant) - Enjoy!

 

[TurboLuigi]

Awesome Thread!... & welcome to the Forum Mike!

From my personal experience with Callaway in having them restore my B2K last year, plus some upgrades, I feel compelled to vouch for the meticulous attention that Callaway pays to detail which no doubt adds to the cost (and also importantly to the residual value of the vehicle). The fact that their components are in most cases engineered or collaborated with them at an engineering level (at least to me) adds value and reliability.

You can always go the cheaper route. To me it was not worth the risk.

-Luigi
:cool

 

[shopview]

Mike,

Welcome to the forum and thank you for taking the time to share with us your knowledge. See you next weekend in CT.

BR,
Mark

 

[Aurora40]

I'm glad that you stepped in to explain the details, only Callaway would be able to answer the questions on this thread properly.

To be fair, only Callaway and Lingenfelter would be able to answer these questions properly. Obviously Callaway isn't going to speak on Lingenfelter's behalf, and Mike just went by the information listed in their package. Jeff went by information listed in the packages in the first place, which is how this thread came to be.

However, it's great to get at least half the story direct from the factory.

 

[racelance]

....Thank you for your input as a satisfied customer....Please let us know what your 0-60 and 1/4 mile times were if you had the chance to bring your mean-machine to the track.Nothing promotes a product better than a satisfied customer.

Invinceablevette-

Here are a couple of links that will tell you more about my Callaway:

Best 1/4 mile time w/ drag radials (street legal): http://www.dragtimes.com/Chevrolet-Corvette-Timeslip-6761.html

The project: http://www.carsatcarlisle.com/schedule/corvette/callaway_corvette_project/callaway_project.asp

Hope this helps!

Lance