caster/camber gauge

[Johan]

I want to by a simple caster/camber gauge to do my own wheel alignment (ok, the local wheel alignment shop have more advanced equipment, but since they don't seem to care much about my car, I figure I can do it better myself).
So far I have only found this one from Longacre:

Anyone have any experience with this one or other? Should I get a magnetic or screw-on type adapter?

 

[gmjunkie]

I want to by a simple caster/camber gauge to do my own wheel alignment (ok, the local wheel alignment shop have more advanced equipment, but since they don't seem to care much about my car, I figure I can do it better myself).
So far I have only found this one from Longacre:

Anyone have any experience with this one or other? Should I get a magnetic or screw-on type adapter?

You don't need more advanced equipment!! Just Know how!! But you do need at least 4 slyder plates or (2 turn tables and 2 slyder plates) Plates are easy made out of 2 pieces of flat alum.or steel with grease sandwitched!! My caster-camber gauge is a Bear # 21 made in 1949!! Here's a pix of my rack!! junk!!

 

[magoo]

You are absolutely right that the best equipment in the world is no good if the user doesn't care. I have an old Snap On portable rack which is a scuff board for toe, two swivel plates and a guage very similar to the one in your pic. I'm sure the one you found will work fine as long as you are using it on a car with a front bearing and spindle set up like your vette's, that also is running a type of wheel which allows access to the spindle. The attachment that Junk has which attaches to the rim can be used in more applications including your rear wheel alignment. However if using the rim attach type, the wheel must be checked for run out or bent condition first. I believe someone sold a rim adapter which lets you use your magnetic gage on the spindle or the adapter. I have not found one but I have used a flat steel bar as a make shift adapter and also do my own rear alignments with good success. My 2 cents.
I just checked and harborfreight.com sells turntables and a camber only guage. Stick with the guage you found as harbor freight's will not do caster. 2 more cents from me.

Mike

 

[gmjunkie]

The attachment that Junk has which attaches to the rim can be used in more applications including your rear wheel alignment. However if using the rim attach type, the wheel must be checked for run out or bent condition first. I believe someone sold a rim adapter which lets you use your magnetic gage on the spindle or the adapter.

Mike

I ck runout when I scribe all 4 tire's!! 1st. Thing!! junk!!

 

[69_coupe]

Several years ago I worked as a mechanic for VW, they have a special tool for the old beetle that looks very much the same, it was a screw-on type. It is possible to measure caster with the tool from Harbor fright as well. You can calculate caster from the difference in camber between 20° left and 20° right turn.

 

[gmjunkie]

You can calculate caster from the difference in camber between 20° left and 20° right turn.

Right you are!! But it is harder to get caster where you want it. junk!!

 

[Johan]

Thanks for the info and input!
magoo, I don't understand the difference between the rim type and the spindle type attachment? Can the rear wheel alignment not be done with a spindle type attachment gauge?

The gauge from Longacre are sold with either a screw on type adapter for the spindle, or a magnetic type adapter also for the spindle, but I need to remove the center hubcap (I have alu wheels on the Vette) to figure out wich would work best.

 

[magoo]

Hey Junk, I enjoy readin your posts all the time and I know you know what yer doin.
Vidar, My Snap On set must also be turned 20 out then 20 in for caster, but it has a seperate bubble that can be zeroed first as a reference point to remove the math. You are right, the harbor freight gage could also do caster.
Johan. The spindle type is what yer lookin at. I think I would prefer the magnetic type, but I've never used the screw on type. If you look at the Junkie's pic you will see he has a bar running from the top of the rim to the bottom of the rim and his gage is attached to it and not the spindle. Like I said, this allows you to use it in more applications such as your rear alignment. The rear alignment can't be done with a spindle type because there is no spindle. In most cases the end of your hub does not stick out far enough past the wheel to fasten to and if it does I'm not sure it is machined smooth enough to give you a true flat reference point. If you have aluminum wheels, some of them are very thick at the hub and the spindle does not stick out far enough to attach to. The gage I have and the magnetic one you're looking at are too large to fit into the center hole in your wheel to get to the spindle if it doesn't stick out. Maybe the screw on type will. As I said, I made an adapter like Junk's out of a flat steel bar. I attach my magnetic gage to it and hold it in place while I take the camber reading in the rear. There is no caster to check in the rear so this works fine. If I could find the adapter someone (Bear, Snap On, or Hunter) made years ago that clipped to the wheel like Junk's and then my gage attached to it, I would buy it.
These other guys know what they're talkin about, we'll get you through it.

A long 2 cents worth,

Mike

 

[gmjunkie]

I have a Bear model 27 magnetic, it has caster correction bubble with a adapter I think it was made 1955, it work's Ok I use it on some stuff!! I like the old one better when I have a car Frame machine for Quick ref. when I'm pulling Crossmember's to see if I have close enough to line up,while it's still chained to Floor with Quadra-Clamps!! I have a lot of Old equ. I use every Day!! But I am Cert. to Run Cheif Easy-Liner, Continnental Uni-Liner,Black Hawk Korick, Bear Flat Rack, and Lazer and Conv. Measuring System's!! But Fancy Measuring System's get out of calb. with a lot of different Tech's throwing thing's around!! Simpler is Better!!Just takes a little Longer!! I'm semi retired!! All I have is time here in the Boonies!! junk!!ps I would get the Magnetic!! Screw on Suck!! You have to turn all 20 in 20 out That's how to get KPPM (King Pin Pos. Mesurement) Yes I know it don't have King pin's But it still has a Turning Axis!!

 

[norvalwilhelm]

I have that caster /camber gage and found I can do better alignments at home then I get from an alignment shop.
I would include the two turn plates already suggested. They are just 4 pieces of metal or aluminum about 16 or 18 inches square with grease between them so you can turn the wheels 20 degrees left and right.
You also need a toe gage, YOu can NOT do a toe check with a tape measure. NO way. YOu can either get the toe gage which is a rod with 2 pointers or toe plates in which case a tape measure is used.
I also include a laser level. With it you can project the front tires onto the back tires or the rear tires to the front.
So to do a home alignment you need the caster/camber gage, a laser level, a toe gage or plates and two homemade turntables.

 

[GT6Steve@aol.com]

Home alignment

In a pinch you can use a stack of glossy magazines under the tires in place of the turntables. Works real nice and provides a use for all the crap catalogs showing up in the mail.Steve

 

[Redcars]

I have a Bear model 27 magnetic, it has caster correction bubble with a adapter I think it was made 1955, it work's Ok I use it on some stuff!! I like the old one better when I have a car Frame machine for Quick ref. when I'm pulling Crossmember's to see if I have close enough to line up,while it's still chained to Floor with Quadra-Clamps!! I have a lot of Old equ. I use every Day!! But I am Cert. to Run Cheif Easy-Liner, Continnental Uni-Liner,Black Hawk Korick, Bear Flat Rack, and Lazer and Conv. Measuring System's!! But Fancy Measuring System's get out of calb. with a lot of different Tech's throwing thing's around!! Simpler is Better!!Just takes a little Longer!! I'm semi retired!! All I have is time here in the Boonies!! junk!!ps I would get the Magnetic!! Screw on Suck!! You have to turn all 20 in 20 out That's how to get KPPM (King Pin Pos. Mesurement) Yes I know it don't have King pin's But it still has a Turning Axis!!

Hi gmjunkie, I came on to your post on your BEAR MODEL #27 alignment gauge and would like to ask a few questions as I picked up a clamp on model #27 and don't know much about it. I understand caster & Camber & toe, but first the level
on the back side the (Bulls eye) Do you start by leveling the car first, then attaching the gauge to wheel with maybe backside up?.. so the gauge can be leveled to????
Is the gauge rotated 180* the gauge itself?...or the wheel and mounted gauge rotated 180* making vials face up? The gauge has a 1" long 3/4" dowel on the end that slips into a corresponding socket with a locking set screw. by loosing the set screw this makes it possible to rotate gauge 360* without moving the clamp on attachment. I have cleaned and lightly lubed the axes point inside gauge without moving any of the set screw attachments any help that you can give me on understanding this unit would be greatly appreciated. Or if you know of a course
of information on the use of the gauge would help. The gauge itself has instruction on the back.......bur doesn't say anything about the back bulls eye level.
Thanks, eimuller@cox.net Redcars
If anyone else has information on this Bear Model #27 gauge please Email me.

 

[gmjunkie]

The level on the back is so you can compensate for a bent wheel!
It doesn't explain it to good in the instructions on the back!~!!
You do that part only if you are using the clamp on to the wheels.

Mark the bottom of the tire with chalk at the turntable,Set the bubble,roll the car back off the turntable 180 deg on tire set bubble and roll it back up on the turntables.......Then pull the pins and align it up!~!



PS Any more than about 1/8 inch,It won't compensate for!

 

[Redcars]

The level on the back is so you can compensate for a bent wheel!
It doesn't explain it to good in the instructions on the back!~!!
You do that part only if you are using the clamp on to the wheels.

Mark the bottom of the tire with chalk at the turntable,Set the bubble,roll the car back off the turntable 180 deg on tire set bubble and roll it back up on the turntables.......Then pull the pins and align it up!~!



PS Any more than about 1/8 inch,It won't compensate for!

]
Hi GMJunkie, Thanks for your reply. I will be using the (clamp) to attach gauge, Are you saying that I need to zero the bubble on back first....them chalk the front tires at bottom edge and roll the car back 180* ==1/2 tire roll
then with (3) vials up set to zero... roll back to chalk mark and check caster first?
Do you have a original copy of the printed instructions that you could scan and attach in a Email to me?
eimuller@cox.net Thanks, Redcars

 

[gmjunkie]

]
Hi GMJunkie, Thanks for your reply. I will be using the (clamp) to attach gauge, Are you saying that I need to zero the bubble on back first....them chalk the front tires at bottom edge and roll the car back 180* ==1/2 tire roll
then with (3) vials up set to zero... roll back to chalk mark and check caster first?
Do you have a original copy of the printed instructions that you could scan and attach in a Email to me?
eimuller@cox.net Thanks, Redcars

The bubble on the back is to ajust for lateral run-out of the wheel,The adjustment for that should be where the gauge mounting plate to the clamp in the center,Some have 2 thumb screws,some have 3.
It has nothing to do with the 2 thumb screws on the bottom of the gauge,the thumb screws on the back of the gauge are for Camber,Caster and SAI Correction!