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Coolant - Water Wetter

JT ZR-Won

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Jim,
I'm currently using it in my ZR-1. Can't realy tell if it works though because I don't have a digital readout of my Temp........just analogue. I've heard a lot of good things about it though.

Jay
 
7

78SilvAnniv

Guest
I've tried it...

...and I liked it.
78 had a problem with running hot during the summer or with the AC on. After water-wetter, it ran approx. 10-15 degrees cooler. I still felt the overheat problem was not solved, but when we installed a flex-fan in addition to using the water-wetter, the engine temp has not been over 190. Slow traffic, hard driving or AC...it makes no difference.
Silver
 
R

racecar

Guest
When you put an additive in your radiator, and the water temperature runs cooler, that means that the coolant is not absorbing as much heat. If your goal is to keep the radiator temp down this may be the solution. The motor is still running hot. A low temp thermostat, and a lower temp fan switch might be a
better overall fix.
 

Ken

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racecar said:
When you put an additive in your radiator, and the water temperature runs cooler, that means that the coolant is not absorbing as much heat.

:confused
Red Line WaterWetter with Rust and Corrosion Inhibitor (liquid) is designed to provide improved metal wetting and excellent corrosion inhibition when added to plain water or a glycol coolant. The most poorly maintained system in an automobile is usually the cooling system. Maintenance is quite simple and only required once each year, but most vehicle owners never routinely change the coolant or replenish the corrosion inhibitors which are required for trouble-free operation. Proper cooling system maintenance is very critical for most modern engines which utilize more aluminum.

Aluminum has a very high corrosion potential, even higher than zinc, which is very widely used as a sacrificial anode. The only property which enables aluminum to be used in a cooling system is that it will form protective films under the proper conditions which will prevent the uncontrolled corrosive attack of acids or bases. Poor aluminum corrosion inhibition will cause the dissolution of aluminum at the heat rejection surfaces, weakening the cooling system walls and water pump casing and weakening the head gasket mating surfaces. These corrosion products will then form deposits on the lower temperature surfaces such as in radiator tubes which have very poor heat transfer properties, causing a significant reduction in the cooling ability of the entire system. Red Line WaterWetter@ with Rust and Corrosion Inhibitor will provide the proper corrosion inhibition for all cooling system metals, including aluminum, cast iron, steel, copper, brass, and lead. Water has twice the heat transfer capability when compared to 50% glycol antifreeze/coolant in water. Most passenger automobiles have a cooling system designed to reject sufficient heat under normal operating conditions using a 50/50 glycol solution in water.

However, in racing applications, the use of water and WaterWetter@ will enable the use of smaller radiator systems, which means less frontal drag, and it will also reduce cylinder head temperatures, even when compared to water alone, which means more spark advance may be used to improve engine torque.

  • BENEFIT SUMMARY
  • Doubles the wetting ability of water
  • Improves heat transfer
  • Reduces cylinder head temperatures
  • May allow more spark advance for increased torque
  • Reduces rust, corrosion and electrolysis of all metals
  • Provides long term corrosion protection
  • Cleans and lubricates water pump seals
  • Prevents foaming
  • Reduces cavitation corrosion
  • Complexes with hard water to reduce scale

_ken :w
 

maxrevs85

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I read an article in Circle Track magazine earlier this year and it stated that test were run on many products , including water wetter and found it made no difference in temps. They stated that water was still the best heat transfer solution . As for corrossion, use nothing but distilled water and water pump lube in climates where you do not need antifreeze Corrosion comes from the water and all water has minerals that corrode . I have prooved this with race cars with aluminum heads radiators etc. After draining the systems there was absolutily no sign of any corrosion. We ran high dollar radiators and water cooled oil coolers and had no corrosion .The.problem with factory systems is the dont run enough pressure . If you can run 20 to 24# caps you'll see better results too. We ran an expansion tank and a non filler cap radistor with the expansion tank being at the highest point to facilate the removle of any air with can get traped in the engine creating hot spots and interupting the flow of water.......so called coolants do nothing to inhibit overheating. Its mainly for corrosion protection.
 

maxrevs85

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One last point.....if you think about it, all engines produce a mass amount of heat. you need to remove this heat or a melt down will occure . The more timing you run ,the more compression you run ,the harder you run, it creates more heat. The heat doesnt just magically disappear . You have to remove it by transfering it to somewhere which is the air by the means of a radiator and the water is what carries the heat there. Under pressure itis kept from boiling. the bigger the cooling system the the better the cooling. Running the smallest sytem you can run is better in race cars for less drag .But still has to be adequete to cool. Fans facilitate cooling. No additive can be abetter heat tranfer the water. It only keeps the system free from build up which insulates the radiator and inhibates the trans of heat.
 
B

Burnnrubber

Guest
Water Wetter

If my memory serves me correctly I believe the stuff works by reducing the surface tension within the water/coolant itself.
The analogy I remember goes something like this.
If you wax a surface the water beads up and does not lay flatly on that surface. Water Wetter does the exact opposite of that & allows the water to coat surfaces evenly, thus increasing the surface area of water in contact with the water jackets. I'm not a chemist but thats how it was explained to me at one time.
 
R

racecar

Guest
We ran it in the road race car. I remember the water temperature going up, from the last weekend. Of course weather conditions may have been different. We thought that it was good because it was allowing the coolant to take more heat out of the engine.
Cylinder head temp cooler, water hotter.
It made sense then.
 

maxrevs85

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I can't disagree with the philosophy. It makes sense . I wouldnt say to not use it. I have a problem with some manufactures claim about products. I dont believe in the temperature decrease they claim ,but I cant dispute the possible physics of it. I was trying to remember what it was made up of and I think there was something about that ,that made me little curious too. :) Oh well , like anything else ,ya either like it or ya dont. Stricking revelation huh? :D
 

maxrevs85

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Thats whats fun about race cars we can always pin results ,good or bad, on weather ,track conditions and a whole bunch of other great stuff....lol.......I still believe a well engineered cooling system is the best coolant. A tight air box and a big radiator. re ran a Howe cool with no problems without a fan. We also ran Griffiths and wouldnt use one of those for nothing . You get what you pay for there. Ours was a double pass type and they seem to be the thing to use.
 

Ken

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Wetter water is the result of reduced hydrogen bonding between adjacent water molecules. The effect is demonstrated by the reduction in the hydrogen bonding between the water molecules, and the surface tension is reduced. As a result of the reduction of hydrogen bonding between the adjacent water molecules, the water becomes "wetter".

H2O molecules link up to each other because of the dipole nature of the individual H2O molecules. As oxygen is more electro-negative (electron "hungry") than hydrogen, the electrons will spend a greater part of their time orbiting the oxygen atom versus the hydrogen atom. As a result, the dipole is created. The additional negative energy in the water (as a result of the electronic unit), reduces the bonding of the oxygen atoms of H2O molecules and the hydrogen molecules of the adjacent H2O molecules. As a result, there are fewer hydrogen bonds between the individual H2O molecules.

And it's not only used by the automotive industry...

From Watercooler.com
WaterWetter® Supercoolant is a unique wetting agent for automobile cooling systems which when used in our computer cooling systems can reduce coolant temperatures by as much as 10% or more. It provides excellent, long lasting corrosion protection. It also provides much better heat transfer properties when used in glycol-based antifreeze. Designed for modern aluminum, cast iron, copper, brass, and bronze systems.

While the bottle recommends 4 oz per gallon in automotive cooling systems, extensive testing in our own systems has shown that 2 oz of Redline Water Wetter in one gallon of water is an optimum mixture for our computer cooling systems. Any less reduces its heat transfer properties. Any more just adds color to your coolant. So the 12 oz bottle is actually enough to treat up to 6 gallons of coolant.

Mixed aluminum, copper and brass samples immersed in the above solution have not shown any corrosion at all since their immersion on October 17th, 2000.

Update..02/27/2001.. still no corrosion!

_ken ;)
 
B

Burnnrubber

Guest
I think we have found our chemist

Extremely well put Ken. When we used the stuff in Rotary engines the Temp reduction was 4% on average, I believe the marketing people add a few degrees of temp reduction to the sales literature.
 

maxrevs85

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whoa Ken . Your scarin me .:eek........


Red line Water wetter and Neo synthetics.......It dont get any better........Make mine a double LMAO :D:D
 
C

Chris N

Guest
I'm thinking that a net result might be more in physical properties than checical and covalent properties. I mean density and viscosity as compared to electron charge diferences. You know, physical and performance characteristics when compared to sub atomic properties. Just a hunch for a former engineer / new vette owner.
Chris :)
 

Hib Halverson

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During the early '90s I assisted Red Line Synthetic Oil Corporation in its development of the "streetable" formula of Water Wetter. The *original* Water Wetter product came in crystaline form and was intended for racing engines and not street use. It was not until about 1993 that the street version was perfected.

I've used the current Water Wetter product for many years in a number of different types of engines.

As stated by others in this thread, the product works by modifying the surface tension of the coolant to which it's added.

The active ingrediants of Water Wetter are 1) a surfactant, 2) a lubricant for water pump shaft seals and 3) a corrosion inhibiter similar in nature to what's in GM/Texaco "Dexcool".

That Red Line Water Wetter (RLWW) has a very effective inhibiter package means, when added to water, you can run a "no-antifreeze" coolant and have the same cooling system durability you'd get with a normal 50/50 mix of water and antifreeze.

As for Water Wetter's effectiveness in reducing coolant temperatures, well---it varies with cooling system design, capacity, coolant mix, system pressure and nominal coolant temperature.

Where RLWW has maximum effectiveness is in a cooling system where some level of nucleate boiling is present. Often this will occur in systems that are running near their boiling points. It also may be most likely to occur in areas of the cooling jackets that aren't getting as much flow as other areas.

In engines that have little or no nucleate boiling and are running at coolant temperatures significantly below the system boiling point, RLWW may have limited impact on coolant temps.

A lot of folks who road race small-block V8 powered Corvettes with stock or near stock cooling systems in hot weather, seem to have great sucess with reduced coolant temperatures after adding Red Line Water Wetter.

Conversely, there's no doubt in my mind that other cooling systems, especially those with high flow rates and nominal coolant temperatures quite a bit below their system boiling points, may not see as much reduction in temperature after the addition of Red Line Water Wetter.

In many cases, the harder the engine is run, the closer to the system boiling point the coolant temperature is and the more nucleate boiling is present, the more effective RLWW will be.

Water Wetter's other attraction is that, in areas where freeze protection is unnecessary, it can be used to replace the corrosion inhibiters and water pump lubricants present in antifreeze and allow a 100% water coolant.

I've done this for a number of years in both my Corvettes, my Chevy Malibu and my daily driver 2001 Camaro.

Those who misunderstand how a cooling system works will argue that using no antifreeze will cause boil over but, in reality, with a 15 lb pressure cap that works properly, a Corvette cooling system will boil at 257 deg. F. With a 50/50 mix of antifreezer and water, it will boil at 264. While antifreeze gives you 7 more degrees, going to straight water, a more efficient coolant than a 50/50 mix reduces coolant temperature such that the seven degrees is, IMO, irrlevant.

During the development work I did for Fluidyne High-Performance Division that brought the Fluidyne 90-96 C4 Radiator to market in 1998, both of our hot weather test cars used straight water/RLWW coolant mixes. One tested all summer in Tucson AZ and the other tested during August in Palm Springs, California. There were no boilovers or even "near-overheating" incidents---even during near-racing speed tests, uphill on mountain roads in 108 deg. ambient temperature. That says much about the Fluidyne radiator and 100% water/RLWW coolant.

Now, I'd like to address a couple of statements made elsewhere in this thread.


When you put an additive in your radiator, and the water temperature runs cooler, that means that the coolant is not absorbing as much heat.
A preposterous statement that is nothing but incorrect.

As for corrossion (sic), use nothing but distilled water and water pump lube in climates where you do not need antifreeze Corrosion comes from the water and all water has minerals that corrode .
While straight distilled water and a water pump lubricant will work well in a race engine, don't try it in a street engine. Corrosion of all metal exposed to distilled water will set-in very quickly once coolant flow ceases when the engine is shut off. It is the metal that corrodes and that will take place whether minerals (in tap water) are present or not. Coolants made up of water and water pump lube work well on the race track but not on the street. Coolants used in street engines must have a corrosion inhibiter.

The.problem with factory systems is the dont run enough pressure . If you can run 20 to 24# caps you'll see better results too.
It is true that some cooling systems can see their performance enhanced by operating at a higher pressure, however, you want to be careful when going to a 20 or 24 pound system in a production engine using production hose clamps. In many cases, stock hose clamps and even replacement worm-gear clamps may not be reliable on production-type coolant hoses used with 20-24 psi systems. Additionally, many radiators that use an aluminum core and plastic tanks sealed by "o-rings" may not be reliable at 20-24 psi. This is not a reason to discount higher pressure systems but it is a reason to re-examine how the hoses attach to cooling system components and to consider your radiator construction, if you decide to raise your system pressure. In most racing applicatiohns that use 20-24psi systems, you'll see braided-stainless-steel covered hoses attached with AN fittings to rugged, all-aluminum radiators.
 

maxrevs85

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Great information. My experiences with the RLWW was entirely in the race setting . I should have mensioned about not useing the high pressure caps . The stock systems are NOT set up to run them . We ran braided hoses and double clamps and racing radiators. I would much rather run a solution like you mensioned than antifreeze. Your comments are making me reconsider RLWW for street use. It makes alot of sense . Stopping corrosion is what I mainly am interested in keeping to a minimum. And if there are any cooling advantages, even better.
 

Hib Halverson

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Your comments are making me reconsider RLWW for street use. It makes alot of sense . Stopping corrosion is what I mainly am interested in keeping to a minimum. And if there are any cooling advantages, even better.

I own four vehicles and half of a fifth,
All use RLWW.
Three of these cars are street high-performance vehicles (2 Vettes and an old Malibu) with modified engines. In all those I run 100% water with 1-to-1.5 bottles of RLWW. In each case, lower coolant temperatures are present mostly because of the 100% water, however, at high-rpm on hot days as coolant temperature rises, I believe the surfactant in RLWW begins to solve problems with nucleate boiling in areas of the water jackets around combustion chambers.

The engines with 100% water and RLWW get coolant changes every 18-24 months and that change interval has been validated with spectrographic analysis of coolant samples.

The other two vehicles are street-driven and not truly high-performance. One is a 4WD Blazer ZR2 that sees useage in areas where freezing temperatures are present. In that engine, I use a 50/50 mix which protects down to -20 deg. Last December, I got a chance to use that protection in the high-country of SW
Wyoming where the vehicle was parked outside in nighttime temps. that went down to -17 deg. The last is a 01 Camaro that's my street driver. I keep 15% antifreeze in its cooling system in the interest of reducing coolant temperature but retaining freeze protection down to 21 deg, the coldest a car parked outside might see where I live. In both the Blazer and the Camaro, I use RLWW with the water/antifreeze mix. The Camaro requires RLWW to augment the reduced-strength corrosion inhibiter that comes with the 15% antifreeze because, with coolants that have less than 30% antifreeze, extra corrosion inhibiters are necessary. In both cases, the antifreeze I use is Dexcool.
 

maxrevs85

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Thanks again for the insight . I have enjoyed the conversation. I have to brake away from some of the racing ways and get back to the street sense . I'm having trouble not wanting to get the vette in race form. LOL.....I will have a strong and fairly stock hot rod when I get done.....emphasis on FUN!! :J the goal is to have it ready for the anniversary year.......2003
 

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