Ekclers vs. VBP Performance Plus systems

[Bob_K]

I was about ready to order my Performance Plus system from Eckler's when I went to the VBP site and noticed they are charging an extra $300. Since VBP makes both kits I called them up and asked what the difference was. Apparently Eckler's orders their kits without the ball joints and puts different ball joints into the kit. The salesman (this is why I'm asking...he IS a salesman) said that the Eckler's ball joints don't fit properly and I may run into problems. Has anyone installed the Eckler's kit and had problems? Has anyone installed it and NOT had problems? I think I'd really like this set up but not if I'm going to have installation problems and I had a hard enough time convincing myself to spend $2000 on suspension, much less $2300, at least untill the engine and transmission are done.

 

[GATOR454]

I purchased the kit from Ecklers (I didn't know at the time I could get it from VBP). I haven't installed it yet, but I have it pre assembled. The ball joints fit fine. If you think about it, how long would Ecklers be able to get away with selling the kit with ball joints that did not fit.

BEWARE. The instructions for this kit are minimal. There is no comprehensive installation manual. Just installation sheets for each component. There are NO diagrams or photos of the finished installation. It was a challenge to just get the pre-assembly done with photos from their web catalog.

If you get one here are some things I have found out from e-mail with VBP tech support (if they had proper instructions I would not have had to ask).
1. The shocks mount to the top of the lower control arm not the bottom as is the case for the stock mounting.
2. The composite spring mount bolts go up through the spring then the control arm in the front and down through the trailing arm and composite spring in the rear.
3. The Upper control arm has an offset shaft that can go either way depending on the condition of your frame (I hope I guess right!)

I should have got an inch thick manual for $2000
I hope to god they are better engineers than they are instruction writers.

One good thing is that it looks sweet sitting on the table and is going to look even sweeter under the car.

If you get one and have any questions I'll try to answer them. or if things go as slow as they have been recently, I may be asking you questions.
David

 

[AKRAY4PLAY]

i got mine from VB&P. it was $2100. the Eckler's kit had junk ball joints and they were on a 9 month waiting list for shocks. the good thing about ordering from VB&P is the high quality Moog heavy duty ball joints and tie-rod ends. i don't know, but i think Eckler's does not have the different spring rates readily available and VB does. shocks make the difference and Eckler's was pushing some big block KYB's that would have been far to stiff for the glass springs. any way you go, the suspension makes a HUGE improvement and you'll love it. Brian

 

[Bob_K]

Didn't notice the shock difference, but now that I look again they are different. I was also thinking that I could order the High Performance system, poly front end rebuild kit (or super kit), rear poly bushing kit, and not lose much if anything other than the A arms. I'd save a few hundred and the only down side would be a few extra pounds on the car.

 

[GATOR454]

I got blistein digressive valve shocks with the Ecklers kit. I'll look tonight to see what ball joints came with it.

 

[AKRAY4PLAY]

i guess we agree the bottom line is saving money. i know that you get what you order from VB&P, Eckler's i can't say that. i originally ordered my kit from Eckler's and even pre-paid (Alaska thing), since they didn't have everything my order got way screwed up. then it was patch work time. after that began, i found out who makes the kits and direct ordered with all specific parts to my needs. if you can get the right stuff from Eckler's at a better price then by all means go that route, just check on delivery time. get the Bilstein shocks for your spring rate and Moog joints. the poly stuff is all about the same. with the performance + kit you get tie-rods, rear sway bar and diff mount kit. best of luck shopping, Brian

 

[Bob_K]

I guess I could always order the Eckler's kit, then get the ball joints from VBP. Ball joints are only $100. I'd still save $200 over the VBP kit, the only difference would be that I'd have to install the joints instead of them coming pre-installed. Out of curiosity, how difficult is it to install them? This will be my first suspension work but I am fairly mechanical and plan on having a 4 wheel alignment done after the kit is installed.

 

[dmrodco]

correct me if I am wrong but doesnt van steel provide this stuff to VB&P and ecklers? they are in in FL ya know and just down the road from each other.

 

[GATOR454]

The ball joints do not come installed in the Ecklers kit. So no problem having to uninstall them.

Installing the ball joints is the easy part.

Removing the stock suspension is the hard part. You will need to remove the front springs and upper and lower control arms, there is all kinds of stuff in the way. I removed the radiator shroud before I realized the upper control arm bolts can be driven out of the frame mount. The rear spring mounts are mounted to the differential support, and requires drilling holes for the bolts. I removed the crossmember so that I could more accurately drill the holes. I'm not sure if they can be drilled with it still in place.

dmrodco I believe Van Steel also sells the kit, but VBP makes the springs, control arms and mounting brackets.

BTW even Moog can make junk.
http://www.safetyalerts.com/rcls/nhtsa/pr98nhtsa/oct98/98e031.htm

 

[AKRAY4PLAY]

proof that VB&P makes the items for Van Steel. http://www.vansteel.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=ProductList&SubGroup=1850
look at the picture and you'll see the VB&P lable on the spring mounts.

Everybody makes lemons once in a while. but the heavy duty Moog joints are better than the blue box Walmart crap that Eckler's sent me. Moog and DanaSpicer have good names in the joint world.

 

[AKRAY4PLAY]

Gator,
btw, i like the blue!!

 

[Bob_K]

Vette Brakes does make the VanSteel equipment. I think I'm just going to order the Eckler's kit and I can always swap ball joints if I need. Like was pointed out though, it's doubtful that I'll need to. As for minimal instructions, I do repairs to nuclear plants on a daily basis. How hard can it be? :eek