ethanol gas

[mcditalia]

My 66 was unused for a couple of months now (probably since August). I added stabil when I last filled up back then. Recently tried starting it over the weekend and it had a real rough time waking up. No apparent mechanical issues to speak of. Eventually it did.

As a side note my newly purchased lawn mower had to be taken to a service shop because I had gas just pouring out of the carb. Shop told me it was bad gas which damaged a float. Told them I added stabil which should be good for a year. Their response, no way. Ethanol gas even mixed with stabil will not last past three months in a lawnmower because it's not a "sealed" system. Well last time I checked, the vette has a "vented" gas cap.

Now you have to wonder how fresh fuel is when getting it from a station to begin with. I have some reservations with how long gas will last even with stabil now. I know this topic was probably covered before, but our cars can sit for months with no use. I know mine has sat idle for six months or more. Just trying to get some thoughts.

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

What's that got to do with E85 gas?

 

[mcditalia]

None. What I meant to write was ethanol gas in the title which i now changed.

 

[John Mekisich]

Ethanol Gas

I feel it is safe to say that changing fuel formulations are going to present the classic car hobby with some very serious challanges in the not to distant future. Out here in California our gas currently contains a maximum of 7% ethanol. This formulation led to my braided steel fuel lines wearing from the inside causing a leak through the braided steel cover on my 70 Pontiac GTO. Rubber fuel line components and ethanol based fuels do not mix. As the oil companies increase the % of ethanol, it won't be long before newer cars like my 96 LT4 vette have issues.

None. What I meant to write was ethanol gas in the title which i now changed.

 

[Hib Halverson]

Generally "E7" or "E10" or won't cause a problem. I have braided stainless covered fuel hose on my car and it's been there for years of using E10. I say that not to dispute the above but to suggest that perhaps the problem with the fuel hoses on the GTO might be the hose material.

It is true, when refiners start going to E15, which EPA will now allow, we should expect problems...mainly with rubber and plastic fuel system parts.

 

[JohnZ]

Now you have to wonder how fresh fuel is when getting it from a station to begin with. I have some reservations with how long gas will last even with stabil now. I know this topic was probably covered before, but our cars can sit for months with no use. I know mine has sat idle for six months or more. Just trying to get some thoughts.

My area has had E10 gas for over twenty years, and I've never had any fuel issues; my classics have sat untouched through the six-month Michigan winters every year (with no "stabilizers"), with no issues. I just fill the tank before I put them up for the winter, and drive them in the spring.

 

[Mac]

None. What I meant to write was ethanol gas in the title which i now changed.

I updated the thread title as well.

-Mac

 

[mcditalia]

Any thoughts on what the lawnmower guy told me about a "sealed" versus "unsealed" system? Will ethanol gas deteriorate quicker when it's exposed to the atmosphere over long periods of time? This seems to make sense.

Hib, made a good point, if gas companies start raising the ethanol content to suit "today's" cars, how will the classic car community respond?

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

My area has had E10 gas for over twenty years, and I've never had any fuel issues; my classics have sat untouched through the six-month Michigan winters every year (with no "stabilizers"), with no issues. I just fill the tank before I put them up for the winter, and drive them in the spring.

I've never had the slightest issue with E10 either. My car starts first turn of the key in the spring as do all my other toys. I bet any problem with the fuel system, no matter what the root cause is, will be blamed on 'ethanol'.

 

[Crimson Thunder]

If you have a fear of Ethanol, check with the Marinas in your area. Most marinas around here sell Ethanol-free fuel for boats. Just fill up with that before you store your car for the season.

 

[JimVette]

Sta-bil it self has a shelf life. Read the small print on the back. After you open a Sta-bil container it has a shelf life of 2 years. I write the open date on the container and on my gas cans.

 

[Oz's 59]

I belong to the area's Corvette club and all of the "older" cars are having problems with this E10. There is no choice here in NYS. Even the marinas are now E10 and in talking with them they're also having problems, even after adding all their extra additives. None of the 2-cycle engine will perform well on this crap either. The computers in my C6 will make the adjustments but my C1 doesn't like it at all. Some owners are going to the local airport and mixing 50/50 with the aviation fuel and that's helping a lot (but @ $9+ per gal). What are we going to do next year when it goes to E15??? If you’re not having problems in your state you’re lucky but NYS’s gas is a different formula than most others. ad

 

[JohnZ]

NYS’s gas is a different formula than most others. ad

No, it's not. I think we pretty much beat this issue to death on the "other" forum.

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

And as it turns out, the OP has (by his own admission) 51 year old fuel lines, pump, tank, etc. It is well known that rubber that old can easily succumb to ethanol in short order, not to mention being a fire hazard due to leaks.

 

[mcditalia]

Not everyone goes on "the other " forum.

Needless to say I found a a local airport nearby that sells 100LL to the public, so will be going to them to fill up.

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

If it's of benefit, you and the gent from NY are mixing apples and oranges. 'Bad gas' that eats rubber bits and floats will not get fixed by using stabil. Ethanol will damage very old rubber and similar old school seals and tubes. Cars and parts made in the last 10-15 years are ethanol compatible, I have no idea about small engines but have never had a problem with any of mine. I would be amazed to learn that some manufacturers still use non compatible materials but given the general quality of imports in the last few years that might be the least of our worries.

Stabil may help with keeping gas fresh over winter storage but again but if water contamination is an issue, neither it nor avgas are wonder drugs. Always best to attack the root cause not hide it with miracles in a can.

 

[John Mekisich]

Ethanol Gas

Regarding the use of Avgas, I am certainly no expert on the subject but I recall reading that it burns differently than conventional gasoline. It would be good to know the advantages and disadvantages of using it

Can those of you in the know (Hib?) provide additional information?

Not everyone goes on "the other " forum.

Needless to say I found a a local airport nearby that sells 100LL to the public, so will be going to them to fill up.

 

[mcditalia]

If ethanol gas is meant to be more compatible with "todays" modern cars that have fuel components designed to work with it, then I don't see why it wouldn't be a better idea to get gas without it. From what I read, ethanol gas will attract more water with long term storage.

Nobody ever said anything about Stabil fixing bad gas. I use stabil in an attempt to prolong the shelf life of the gas I use regardless whether it has ethanol or not. If AV gas doesn't have ethanol, then my bet is that it will cause less problems during storage then ethanol gas will. That is not to say that AV gas will not deteriorate with time as well.

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

Regarding the use of Avgas, I am certainly no expert on the subject but I recall reading that it burns differently than conventional gasoline. It would be good to know the advantages and disadvantages of using it

Can those of you in the know (Hib?) provide additional information?

This subject has been beaten to death all over the internet with more misinformation and myth being propagated than truth. 100LL 'burns' at the same velocity as auto gas, given that there's a range to either. Even taking the extreme of each, it makes no tangible difference other than in a lab.

Some users of Avgas report less problems with percolation, and seem to be able to reproduce the effect during hot summer restarts, so I'll accept their word at face value.

Some with substantially modified engines cannot seem to get detonation under control through any other method and have resorted to using Avgas or 'race gas' for the higher octane levels.

E10 is know to cause accelerated deterioration of components as mentioned above.

Avgas contains a healthy dose of lead and the plugs suffer a shortened life accordingly, just like in the good? old days. That's one of two reasons why it's not legal to use on the roads.

I have no operational problems with E10 and suffer no issues with it while in storage so really have no incentive to use an expensive, illegal, hard to get gas, in order to fix what is not broken.

Recent information indicates that todays' gasoline formulations may suffer from increased evaporation (ie related to vapour pressure levels) irrespective of whether they contain ethanol or not.

Yes the world has changed, E10 just happens to be a convenient whipping boy.

 

[magicv8]

I've been using 10% ethanol in my 66 Sting Ray, lawn mower, snow blower, and a series of SUVs for 15 - 20 years with no problems. My lawn mower is 12 years old and the snow blower is 30. I never put stabil in any of them and the gas is always good at seasonal startup. Try using less stabil.

What generally damages floats is water in the carb during freezing weather, but it takes a lot of water.