Fasteners-Major Problem here, please help...

[dshanks]

Im in the process of re-assembling the front end of my engine to get it started for the first time after an 8 month restoration, and I thought I was going to be driving this thing tomorrow night.

Well, the worst $#!+ happened! I was removing the upper bolt on the water pump (which I just installed, brand new, just 3 weeks ago in a fresh motor) to install the Alternator brackets, and as I was removing the bolt, (new ARP fasteners) and it sheared off in my NUMBERS MATCHING block. I couldnt have been more furious! At me, ARP, the car, whatever...Im sure you know the feeling...

What's wrong here? I read they are good to 170,000-200,000 psi. Im no engineer, if somebody knows what I did wrong here please let me know...

More importantly, how do I fix this mess? I can make a different bracket to mount to the manifold and drivers side head, run 3 water pump bolts, call it a day, which might be a pain in the ^$$ and un reliable or I can drill this thing out and re-tap it. If thats the best solution, what type of bit would cut through a grade 8+ bolt? and when I get through it, what size tap do i use? It broke in the block about 3/8" so Im not drilling onto a stump, thank god!!! is it promising???

Is there water jacket on the other side of the upper bolt like the lower? Do I drill on through?

Should I consult a professional? The car doesnt run yet, and I cant afford a tow to a metalurgist and back...

My engine has fresh orange paint, so torching to expand is not the best option...

The bolt was very hard turning, obviously, so an easyout will probably not work...

Should I have a new motor built and save this #s matching block for another day when I have more time and money, when a trip to a proper machine shop isnt out of the question?

Does anybody agree that I should not have been able to shear that off with a 1/2" hand rachet???

Hope I provided enough info, if not please ask.

Give me a break ARP, I hope this wasnt your fault, I though you were the best...

 

[waterboy1976]

go to your Sears store get a bolt extractor...drill the center of the stud out insert the bolt extractor and extract it...simple as that......if you can assemble a motor...you can do that.....

Ive seen those things take out the hardest of bolts........unfortunatley in my own block...

 

[Key West Jack]

what he said, and use a ton of WD40 or similar.

 

[dshanks]

go to your Sears store get a bolt extractor...drill the center of the stud out insert the bolt extractor and extract it...simple as that......if you can assemble a motor...you can do that.....

Ive seen those things take out the hardest of bolts........unfortunatley in my own block...

Are you certain that a bolt extractor would bring this thing out?
You'd think the bolt extractor would have to be stronger than the bolt itself. Is that the case? Its a brand new ARP bolt...

Also, any idea what caused this so i dont make the same mistake twice?
I probably used silicone to prevent seepage. Would this cause it to hold on too tight? Would this prevent WD40 from penatrating?

 

[Key West Jack]

I don't think the hardness is an issue. Since the bolt went in with out being cross threaded. My only concern is that the treads have galled. If you some type of sealer then something will have to be done to all allow the penetrating oil to work.

 

[dshanks]

I don't think the hardness is an issue. Since the bolt went in with out being cross threaded. My only concern is that the treads have galled. If you some type of sealer then something will have to be done to all allow the penetrating oil to work.

After speaking with another guy, Im pretty sure they galled. the bolts are extremely hard to remove. I guess they should be easy after the first couple turns???
Im open to any suggestions, Im stumped here...

 

[goingballistic]

Were the bolts easy to insert?
There is no way that any sealer would cause this, it's just not strong enough to cause this kind of problem. If the bolt was too long and bottomed out it might cause it.

One way to avoid this after you get it fixed is to "work" the bolts in. Put them in about 1/4 way and back them out again. Check threads and then go in 1/2 way, keep doing that until you seat them. If they bottom out or get hard to turn STOP and recheck the length.

Usually an easy out will get them out fairly easily IF you use the tool correctly. That means PATIENCE and unfortunatly NO beer :eyerole. Drill it out, insert the easy out.........using LOTS of oil. Again "work" the easy out, in then back it out ( again use OIL), in then back it out,repeat until you seat it then SLOWLY drive the easy out. DO NOT USE POWER tools.....it will snap and then you're screwed.

 

[dshanks]

The bolts went in very easy. But probably not with fingers. The threads may have been mildly rusted.
What you said about the bolt being too long really makes sense. I bet when I tried to put the bolt in the first time (with no alternator bracket), it went in too far, I pushed an extra 1/4 to a 1/2 turn before realizing what I was doing. I bet this is when the bolt galled, and my problem began???

Is this something that a professional should do? Ive never done this before.

 

[Key West Jack]

I think it is a matter for you decide. If you are comfortable with the removal process then by all means move forward. It takes time and lots for patience. You may try applying a some heat to break any seal then add your WD40.

 

[goingballistic]

The bolts went in very easy. But probably not with fingers. The threads may have been mildly rusted.
What you said about the bolt being too long really makes sense. I bet when I tried to put the bolt in the first time (with no alternator bracket), it went in too far, I pushed an extra 1/4 to a 1/2 turn before realizing what I was doing. I bet this is when the bolt galled, and my problem began???

Is this something that a professional should do? Ive never done this before.

If you don't feel comfortable with this and are afraid of doing more damage............leave it to a pro, actually take it to a pro and have them do it for you.

 

[dshanks]

If you don't feel comfortable with this and are afraid of doing more damage............leave it to a pro, actually take it to a pro and have them do it for you.

I'm leaning toward that route, but the car isnt running so I have to find someone thats willing to make a house call. Either way I dont personally feel comfortable. I might get my dad to do it, or a friends dad thats a retired pipefitter. He claims to have done this many many times.
My dad said that if I break that extractor off, im REALLY screwed, so I dont want my first bolt extraction to be on my numbers matching engine block.

should I be looking for an extractor from snap-on or mac vs an ordinary one, for strength reasons?

Any other tips and tricks that we should know about before tackling this job?

Thanks for your help everybody.

Just hope the other 3 dont break off, or this will turn a nightmare into a super-freaking major nightmare!

 

[dshanks]

Problem solved

I got this done Sunday, and it wasn't all that bad...

I used a combination of techniques that I learned from a couple people, I thought Id share my experience in case this happens to somebody else.

To drill the exact center of the bolt, I used a hardened 3/16" Drill sleeve, mounted into the appropriate bolt hole in the old water pump. I used washers on the other 3 bolts to create 1/4" space bewteen the mounted water pump and block. I used this space to see/lubricate the bit. It drilled out in about 3-4 minutes. I sprayed penatrating oil on the other side of the bolt and let it sit.

Next I tried Craftsman power extractors, which are supposed to be suitable for grade 8 bolts.
BS- They stripped out.
I went back to Sears (thanks to their money back guarantee) and got regular hardened extractors. I ruined 2, but the bolt finally backed out. I re-tapped the threads and the motor is already back together.

Thanks for all your help, hope my addition can be of help to someone as well.

 

[bossvette]

I re-tapped the threads

That is a most important often overlooked step in the engine building process, if a bolt doesn't go in by hand; run a tap in the hole; don't grab a bigger wrench

 

[lonestarvette64]

Man Law -- Philosophy of life, if it don't go.... force it!!! :bang

 

[Crimson Thunder]

A coworker (a 5.0 mustang guy) of mine got the water pump bolts mixed up and ended up pushing a long bolt all the way through the #1 cylinder of his brand new 347 inch small block.He had to pull the motor apart and resleeve the cylinder.Kind of makes you glad were all Chevy guys(and gals) here.Hope this story makes you smile after your problem.