Good/bad advice - engine disturbed with chain off

[twoseater]

Just full of questions this week! I have replaced my timing gears with a timing chain. I was told by my brother in law that it doesn't matter if the crank or cam is turned while the chain/gears were off. This is because the cam and nose are indexed with a pin/key.

However, when I was rotating the crank shaft to line up the chain gears, I noticed that for every two revolutions of the crank the cam turns one. Will I be OK (distributor was not removed) or do I have to do over and ensure TDC and compression stroke?

Thanks! This is my vacation project so I only have today to get it all put together before my 1 year old and 3 year old demand a trip to the zoo

 

[grumpyvette]

how come its 180 degs out of phase? I get this question all the time, well heres something I see lots of guys don,t understand,ONCE YOUVE INSTALLED A CAM WITH THE TIMEING MARKS (like in the picture below) YOU MUST ROTATE THE CRANK 360 DEGRESS BEFORE DROPPING IN THE DISTRIBUTOR
... while its true that if the
timeing marks are possitioned so the crank is at 12 o,clock and the cam gear
is at 6 o,clock that the cam lobes will be in the possition that fires #6
cylinder that HAS NO EFFECT AT ALL (on finding TDC,) for aligning the degree wheel with TDC,or THE timeing tab pointer, for degreeing in the cam, the piston passes thru
TDC TWICE in every fireing cycle once on the fireing/power stroke and once
on the exhaust stroke, the cam rotates at exactly 1/2 the speed of the crank
so to make it easy to line up the marks they install it with the marks at
the closest point 6/12 for easy indexing, rotate the engine 360 degrees to
the #1 TDC power stroke and the crank gear will still be at 12 oclock 12/12
but the cam will be at 12 o,clock also, rotate another 360 degrees and your
back where you started. its simply easier to index the cam at the point
where the index marks align closely. look at how the cam lobes themselfs
open the valves when the cam is just installed the #1 cylinder valves are
slightly open and the #6 are closed
per "Lunati"
""YES YOU ARE RIGHT - WHEN CRANK IS AT TWELVE AND CAM IS AT SIX THEN #6 CYL IS FIRING
AFTER YOU LINE UP YOUR MARKS AND INSTALL GEAR THEN ROTATE YOUR CRANK ONE REVOLUTION AND THEN DROP THE DIST. IN - AT THAT POINT #1 IS FIRING""

install it like this, then rotate the engine one time 360 degrees the cam gear will now be at 12 oclock just like the crank gear, then install the distrib pointing at cylinder #1

 

[twoseater]

Wow - had no idea on that one. So, if I understand correctly, if I pull the dist cap off like I have it I will see it on #6. I will then rotate the crank 360 which will put the CAM at 12 oclock and the crank at 12 oclock, then install dist on #1. Then I'll be in phase.

Also, it doesn't matter that the crank/cam was turned with no chain. Everything will work out as long as I have 12 oclock on the cam/crank and the distributor on #1. (I guess #1 piston also has to be TDC on compression but it should already be there if it was correct before).

Thanks again for your help. One less 180 degree out of phase vet in the world

 

[WhiteKnight]

It won't matter for timing purposes, as you get the timing ballparked when aligning the marks cam/crank to 6/12 when reassembling like Grumpyvette described. But use caution rotating the crank with the chain off you might bend a valve (unless you have pulled all the rockers off).

 

[grumpyvette]

YEAH! you sound like youve got it!

WhiteKnight gave you good advice, watch that piston to valve clearance, as its potentially a problem in some engine combos

heres some more info that may help

THE INTAKE , ON OR OFF HAS NO EFFECT, JUST BE SURE TO TAKE THE ENGINE OUT OF GEAR AND PUT THE PARKING BRAKE ON AND REMOVE THE ROCKER ARMS FROM CYLINDER #1 BEFORE STARTING SO YOU DON,T DAMAGE THE VALVES AND REMOVE THE PLUGS FROM THE OTHER CYLINDERS TO MAKE THE ENGINE EASY TO TURN WITH A BREAKER BAR AND DISCONNECT THE BATTERY SO NO ONE HITS THE STARTER AND DAMAGES A PISTON

www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=3316&prmenbr=361"
look closely you can easily build your own with a 7/16" tap and an old spark plug and a 7/16" bolt ok heres how you do it without spending much money, first get a majic marker and pull all your spark plugs. make a piston stop from an old spark plug and bolt.or buy a commercial piston stop like the one in the picture. remove the rocker arms from cylinder #1 install the piston stop and BY HAND NOT USEING THE STARTER rotate the engine slowly by hand with a breaker bar and socket untill the piston stops when it hits the piston stop as it almost reaches TDC, take the majic marker and draw a line on your DAMPER exactly even with the (0-TDC) timeing line on your on your timeing tab , now rotate the engine in the other direction untill it stops and again take the majic marker and draw a line on your DAMPER exactly even with the timeing (TDC)line on your TIMING TAB, the marks will be about 1'-1.5" apart depending on how far down the cylinder the piston stopped., TDC on the DAMPER is exactly in the center of the two marks,you made,(if the damper has not slipped and your useing the correct damper and timing tab,for your engine, that should be where the factory TDC was already marked on the damper, now remove the piston stop, rotate the damper to the CORRECT TDC location hopefullly its where the factory line says it should be)
the further you screw in the piston stop the lower in the cylinder the piston is stopped, and the further apart the two marks will be but TDC will still be centered between the two marks on the damper. of course if you stop the piston extremely low in the cylinder the marks will be so far apart that they are hard to find the center exactly, I try for stopping the piston about 1/8" down in the cylinder
http://www.2quicknovas.com/happyTDC.html

 

[twoseater]

Sweet - thanks. Very helpful. I got her all back together and have a coolant leak around the water pump. I was as careful as can be, new gaskets, all cleaned etc. Not sure what happened but I'll be back under the hood soon.

I was careful about turning the crank but did so before reading whitenights response. Hopefully nothing is bent...I did it slow and let the pressure bleed out but now I know

grumpyvette - a huge thanks for your last post. Since I'll be back down to the damper I'll follow your advice and ensure I have it right. The timing tab is a bolt on version (not OEM or integrated into the timing cover) so I don't trust it in the least.