Hard lines or hoses?

[MaineShark]

I'm going to be plumbing in a transmission cooler and an oil cooler.

The transmission cooler already has hard lines that go most of the way there, so I'm just going to use hoses to go from the lines (which end just aft of the radiator) to the cooler (between the radiator and the A/C condenser).

The oil cooler will be a totally custom installation. So, my choice is between running hoses all the way from the engine to the front of the car, or bending tubing for much of the run. If I did that, I'd run the hard lines along the side of the engine compartment, and use tubing to bridge the gap between the engine and the sidewall (to account for any flex in the engine mounts, and make things easier if I need to disconnect the system from the engine).

Obviously, hoses would be easier, but I'm willing to give bending tubing a try, since it seems like a much more professional installation.

Thoughts?

Joe

 

[dsagers]

When adding coolers, I've used hoses for years without a problem. Just route them so they don't get burned and are somewhat protected from road hazards.

 

[iron cross]

Hard lines!

 

[billybob]

cut and bend all the way, never a dull moment never a soft hose

Bill

 

[yakatak76]

my superduty ford came from the factory with hoses on the oil cooler so i am thinking they would be looking for the easy way to put things together, as time is money. i would think with engine movement and body flex, a hard line would tend to crack if not allowed the freedom of movement.

 

[Stallion]

Is a transmission cooler necessary? I assume that that's not stock, right? Do transmissions over heat? And what kind of performance gain would you get out of cooling the oil?

Thanks!

Good luck!

TR

 

[MaineShark]

Is a transmission cooler necessary? I assume that that's not stock, right? Do transmissions over heat? And what kind of performance gain would you get out of cooling the oil?

It is for an auto trans. Not a manual. The extensive hydraulics that operate an auto tranny, and particularly the torque converter, generate a lot of heat. Auto cars came stock with a cooler built into the radiator, but many people add external coolers to keep the fluid cooler. Cooler is better (within reason).

I guess in a heavy-duty race car, some benefit might be derived from cooling the fluid in a manual tranny (they sometimes cool the fluid in the diff, even), but I don't think it would be useful or practical in a street car.

Joe

 

[MaineShark]

Another question: where to get lines, and what to use, if I go with hard lines? I'd like to go with fairly large lines (all the components in the cooler setup have 1/2"NPT fittings, so that sounds like a good size) to keep pressure drop to a minimum. The only thing I can find in local auto parts stores is brake line, and that only goes up to 3/8"

Joe

 

[iron cross]

3/8`s is fine

 

[Stallion]

It is for an auto trans. Not a manual. The extensive hydraulics that operate an auto tranny, and particularly the torque converter, generate a lot of heat. Auto cars came stock with a cooler built into the radiator, but many people add external coolers to keep the fluid cooler. Cooler is better (within reason).

I guess in a heavy-duty race car, some benefit might be derived from cooling the fluid in a manual tranny (they sometimes cool the fluid in the diff, even), but I don't think it would be useful or practical in a street car.

Joe

I see what you mean. I didn't know you had an auto, Joe. But I see what you about the extra mile for the auto trans. A quick yes or no question, is there a torque converter in a manual transmission too?

Thanks and good luck!

TR

 

[Bob Chadwick]

No. It serves the same purpose as the clutch that you find in the manual setup.

 

[22229stingray81]

Stallion,

Sorry if Im barging in here, but I think I can actually answer this one (what a surprise!) No there is no torque converter in manual transmissions. The torque converter in autos is used for the transmission to catch up to the engines speed, if I remember correctly that is the job of the clutch in the manual. Hope I answered your question.


-Tatortot

 

[Stallion]

Absolutely, you did answer my question. Thanks a lot!! I did know that there was a lot of extra hardware in an auto, but I just wasn't sure if a torque converter was part of that extra list. Thanks!!

TR

 

[22229stingray81]

You are very welcome, glad I could give back to the community!:cool


-Tatortot

 

[MaineShark]

Just wanted to bring this back up and see if there are any more opinions...

Also, are there any good sources for braided hoses that will work with oil? I'd rather use the braided than plain rubber (whether I go with hoses or hard lines for the long runs, there will still be hoses in some locations to allow for flex).

And, is brake line okay for hard lines? That's all I can find (other than copper water pipe, but that ain't happening...) Are there any other good sources for piping?

Joe

 

[woobie1966]

hi joe,
i have been looking at braided lines for my fuel line and recieved catalogs from russell performance (www.russellperformance.com) and xrp (www.xrp.com)
both these companies had all types and manners of braided lines/hard aluminum lines in all diameters (i dont know if aluminum lines would work with oil).
good luck
mike

 

[JohnZ]

I used remote oil filters and coolers on the Cobras and Grand Sport I built, and plumbed them all with Aeroquip braided lines and Aeroquip AN fittings (REAL AN fittings, not the push-on look-alike stuff).

 

[MaineShark]

Thanks, guys. I've been checking things out, and considering the possibilities, and I think I'm going to end up with a mixture.

I'm going to mount the cooler with the fittings up and run hard lines over the top of the radiator, to connect the cooler to the bypass thermostat. Well, I may have one section of hose in there, if I can't find the reverse-thread fittings and pipe that I need in one spot. I'm also going to run a hard line to connect the remote oil filter to the thermostat. I'll switch to hoses (-10 AN, probably) at the thermostat's "out" fitting, and also the filter's "in" fitting. I'm going to fabricate a bracket to mount the remote filter to the back of the radiator support - that will place it in the air stream (added cooling) and keep it nice and close to the cooler to make plumbing easier.

Then the question becomes whether I run -AN line all the way back to the engine, or whether I run hard lines along the frame rail, and a second set of -AN lines to connect the engine to the hard lines, at that end (flexible line is a must, here, to allow for flex when the engine moves.

So, I'm going to need to track down 1/2" hard lines, if I decide to do that.

And, I also need to figure out what sort of fittings to use up at the front - any preferrences? My current thinking is just going to a plumbing store and stainless steel pipe fittings. Or maybe brass and paint them black after they are assembled. What do you guys think? I'm open to suggestions...

Also, do you guys think it would be a good idea to install a T-fitting and ball valve up at the top end, to bleed air out after oil changes?

Joe

 

[MaineShark]

Back up to the top, since I'm hoping to do a bit of work early next week, if I can.

Joe

 

[MaineShark]

Anyone?

Joe