History lesson please

mcditalia · May 10, 2005

I'm wondering where the term "TURBO JET" and "TURBO FIRE" originated from and why GM chose to use TURBO in their marketing. Kind of odd if you think about it. Am i over-analyzing this? History lesson please

IH2LOSE · May 11, 2005

mcditalia said:
I'm wondering where the term "TURBO JET" and "TURBO FIRE" originated from and why GM chose to use TURBO in their marketing. Kind of odd if you think about it. Am i over-analyzing this? History lesson please

I cant answer your question but I can share a story of stupidty and why I genraly dont go to car shows.

We had my 66 vette and my 67 deville at a car show some years back and I was putting the top down on the caddy (next to the vette) and a fellow says to me as he is pointing to the 427 emblem on the fender of the vette

" If your going to advertize that the car has an automatic it should have an automatic in it"

I had to ask.

Why do you think it should have an automatic in it.He then explained that anybody who knows cars knows that "Turbo Jet" is an automatic transmision.and this car had a 4 speed in it.

Now I could have pointed out it was a 425 car and that none of them were allowed the option of an automatic,Or I could have explained that was a marketing term for the motor

but instead

I thanked him for his words of wisdom.I said I would look into it.

MMM · May 11, 2005

Do not know the exact history of the use of Turbo, but know it first appeared for Chevrolet with the Turboglide transmission in 1957. It was followed the next year by the Turbofire 348 engine. Don't forget the '50's were the "jet" age. Everything was advertised as "jet age", which manifested itself in the swept fins on many 1950's cars. Also in a lot of other things such as the design of home appliances. Turbo is a derivitive of Turbine and the jet engine is a turbine.
Didn't see Turbojet until the Mark IV engine appeared. I always thought the name was to differentiate the Mark IV (396/402/427/454) from the earlier Mark I (348/309/427) as it was the Turbofire engine.
Mike

Vettehead Mikey · May 11, 2005

Adding the word 'Turbo' in the 50s and 60s is similar to the marketing practice today of adding the word 'Digital' to everything.

I pride myself by having digital fingers.

paul67 · May 11, 2005

I'll speculate on this one. Post-WWII automobile design borrowed heavily on military aircraft cues. The fins of the 1950s were in fact imitations of wings. Tail lights were aircraft engine exhausts (see 1959 Cadillac). Fighter planes represented power and speed and this was much imitated with automobiles. Fighter pilots were seen as gallant free spirits. Now you the consumer could fly down the freeway in a like manner.

One thing that struck me when I first bought my 1967 was the size and prominence of the clock. Why on earth was this instrument so large and obtrusive? So I posed the question on-line. Here's one answer/opinion. A key to a successful fighter mission was judicious use of altitude, throttle position and fuel. But all of these could not ignore time. Hence the importance of the clock.

The turbojet engine was developed by both the British and the Germans in late WWII. The German jet-powered ME-262 saw action in 1945 and was far superior in speed to the aircraft of the Allies. But it was too little, too late despite the technological superiority. The British Meteor went into service shortly after armistice. The American Shooting Star (T-38?) followed shortly thereafter. I suspect GM wanted to borrow the concept of engineering excellence by adopting the word "turbojet" to its engines: they were high-performance, at least in name.

They went a little further - beyond an engine label - about 1965 when they introduced a turbocharged engine for the Corvair. My memory is vague on matters Corvair but I do not believe that configuration lasted very long.

Just a few musings that may not be accurate.

JohnZ · May 11, 2005

Like most "hooks" in Chevrolet marketing, it was no doubt created within the walls of Campbell-Ewald, Chevy's ad agency for the last 50 years or so; born of the "jet age", and subsequently applied to Chevy engines for years. Other famous "hooks" from Campbell-Ewald include "baseball, hot dogs and apple pie", "See the USA in your Chevrolet" (Dinah Shore), and many more up to today's "The American Revolution".

mcditalia · May 11, 2005

IH2LOSE said:
I had to ask.

Why do you think it should have an automatic in it.He then explained that anybody who knows cars knows that "Turbo Jet" is an automatic transmision.and this car had a 4 speed in it.

Very interesting responses. The reason I asked was exactly for the reason that is mentioned by IH2LOSE, and wasn't sure of an appropriate answer to give :L

67HEAVEN · May 11, 2005

JohnZ said:
......Other famous "hooks" from Campbell-Ewald include "baseball, hot dogs and apple pie", "See the USA in your Chevrolet" (Dinah Shore), and many more up to today's "The American Revolution".

CLICK for some nostalgia.

Ken · May 11, 2005

There was also the Turbo-Thrift sixs, Turbo-Air for the Corvair, as well as Turbo-Fire and Turbo-Jet for the V-8 engines: Turbo-Fire for the smaller, lower horsepower V-8s, and Turbo-Jet for the bigger and/or higher horsepower V-8s.

KOPBET · May 11, 2005

More Dinah, circa 1959.

MMM · May 12, 2005

I thought more about this while cutting grass last night; what else is there to do? Anyway, I remember a Chevy advertisement in a 1958 Popular Mechanics on which the headline read "Turbofire and Turboglide". The ad was espousing the new Turbofire 348 cid engine and the fact it worked best with the Turboglide transmission. I think I still may have that book and will look for it when I get a chance. Anyway, I wonder if the original Turboglide transmission was the impetus for Cambell - Ewald to add the word Turbo to the engine name, i.e., to better advertise the Turboglide Tx, whose sales were never up to expectations. And after that, the name stuck.
How many remember on the original installation of the Turboglide in '57, the "low gear" (which I think just allowed just one of the turbines to spin) was designated on the shift quadrant as "HR" for Hill Retarder. This was soon changed to "GR" for Grade Retarder. Reason? "Informed" owners thought it meant "High Range".
Mike

bossvette · May 12, 2005

KOPBET said:
More Dinah, circa 1959.

that was my second car, try to find one now they are as pricy as a Vette of that year.

magicv8 · May 12, 2005

Powerglide, Powerflite, Torqueflite, Firepower, Firedome, Turbofire all marketed power.

Cruisomatic, Dynaflow, Hondamatic, Wankel and the rest all marketed boredom.

Just think how many more Granola bars they'd sell if they were called Chocosweets instead.

Mike McKown · May 12, 2005

MMM said:
I thought more about this while cutting grass last night; what else is there to do? Anyway, I remember a Chevy advertisement in a 1958 Popular Mechanics on which the headline read "Turbofire and Turboglide". The ad was espousing the new Turbofire 348 cid engine and the fact it worked best with the Turboglide transmission. I think I still may have that book and will look for it when I get a chance. Anyway, I wonder if the original Turboglide transmission was the impetus for Cambell - Ewald to add the word Turbo to the engine name, i.e., to better advertise the Turboglide Tx, whose sales were never up to expectations. And after that, the name stuck.
How many remember on the original installation of the Turboglide in '57, the "low gear" (which I think just allowed just one of the turbines to spin) was designated on the shift quadrant as "HR" for Hill Retarder. This was soon changed to "GR" for Grade Retarder. Reason? "Informed" owners thought it meant "High Range".
Mike

Mike:

Good job on your list but.........................., Wasn't the 348 called the Turbo-Thrust engine?

A friend had a '58 Bel Air with a 348 TurboGlide in it. When drag racing, he would take off in HR and when the engine hit valve float (happened very quickly), shift to drive, ripping off two very long patches of rubber.

MMM · May 12, 2005

Your right, the 348 was Turbo-Thrust, I think the small block may have been Turbofire. Turbo-Thust was a good name for a truck engine.

Mike

magicv8 · May 12, 2005

Turboglide starts in Grade Retard (GR) were always good for a laugh about the name of the low gear and a smile when the tires lit up.

vette-dude · May 12, 2005

magicv8 said:
Turboglide starts in Grade Retard (GR) were always good for a laugh about the name of the low gear and a smile when the tires lit up.

I thought the GR stood for Granny Gear!!! Good info, Thanks.

JohnZ · May 12, 2005

Turboglide was also the ONLY transmission ever put in a Chevy that required a special crankshaft, usable only with that transmission; had a HUGE hole in the back for the oversize Turboglide converter pilot.
:beer

67HEAVEN · May 12, 2005

I had a '57 Canadian 2-door hardtop Pontiac that had a TurboSlide automatic in it. What a nightmare.

kbuhagiar · May 13, 2005

...the most famous turbo

Ken said:
There was also the Turbo-Thrift sixs, Turbo-Air for the Corvair, as well as Turbo-Fire and Turbo-Jet for the V-8 engines: Turbo-Fire for the smaller, lower horsepower V-8s, and Turbo-Jet for the bigger and/or higher horsepower V-8s.

...and one more very important (non-GM) Turbo:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://sfgate.com/c/pictures/2005/01/24/mn_a_carson_turbo.jpg&imgrefurl=http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article%3Fm%3D/c/pictures/2005/01/24/mn_a_carson_turbo.jpg%26f%3D/c/a/2005/01/24/MNGJKAVAAB1.DTL&h=408&w=319&sz=43&tbnid=E943hNGjAvIJ:&tbnh=120&tbnw=94&hl=en&start=2&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dfloyd%2Br%2Bturbo%2Bcarson%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26rls%3DGGLD,GGLD:2005-06,GGLD:en%26sa%3DN