It's too good, when will "they" intervene again?

[Ken]

The government attempted to kill the musclecar genre once before. Now that we're seeing significant horsepower numbers being cranked out by the major manufacturers, much more horsepower than we had in the late sixties, when will they (the gov't) intervene again?

Granted, suspension, tires and braking have improved significantly too, but the drivers haven't. It's still just as easy to get in over your head.

I started looking around to see if this was being discussed yet, and found the following article by Eric Mayne of the Detroit News, from March of this year.

Friday, March 12, 2004

2004 SAE WORLD CONGRESS

Automakers still hot on horsepower

Performance remains focus despite the rising cost of gas

By Eric Mayne / The Detroit News

Daniel Mears / The Detroit News
Steve Saleen, left, Jack Roush and Carroll Shelby, all former racers turned performance car makers, check out the Ford Shelby Cobra engine at the SAE World Congress.​

The auto industry’s horsepower battle is far from over despite concerns from some automakers that souped up vehicles could spark a backlash.

Horsepower ratings for mass-market vehicles have been rising for several years and likely will continue to escalate thanks to consumer demand and new technology, said Chrysler’s chief of performance vehicles.

Automakers are boosting horsepower in key models to appeal to more enthusiasts. Horsepower ratings for select models on the market or coming soon:

​

• '05 Ford GT coupe 550
• '05 Dodge Viper SRT-10 coupe 500
• '04 Dodge Ram SRT-10 pickup 500
• '04 Chevrolet Corvette LS6 405
• '04 Aston Martin Vanquish 450
• '04 Saleen S7 575
• '05 Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren 617
• '05 Maserati MC12 630
• '04 Porsche 911 GT2 477
• '04 Lamborghini Murcielago 572

• 
  
  ​
  ​
  Sources: Manufacturers, Car and Driver

Hod-rods such as the Dodge Viper returned to vogue in the mid-1990s and will remain hot despite rising gas prices, said Dan Knott, director of the Street and Racing Technologies for DaimlerChrysler AG’s Chrysler Group, this week at the Society of Automotive Engineers World Congress at Cobo Center.

But Knott’s counterparts at rivals Ford Motor Co., and General Motors Corp., say the trend could open the industry to criticism.

“You don’t want to start going wacko-crazy because you know what that’s going to bring?” asked John Coletti, director of Ford’s Special Vehicle Team programs. “It’s going to bring unwanted attention ... We’re enjoying the golden age of performance right now. Let’s not screw it up.”

Most major automakers, including the Big Three, are producing high-performance version of mainstream vehicles, such as the Ford SVT Focus. The auto industry’s renewed emphasis on performance was a hot topic during the SAE World Congress.

Racing-legends-turned-vehicle-makers Jack Roush, Carroll Shelby and Steve Saleen spoke Thursday about whether high performance niche vehicles can help automakers drum up excitement and ultimately increase profits.

Certainly, vehicles like the gaz-guzzling 550-horsepower Ford GT sports car grab headlines and tug at heartstrings — despite a cacophony of voices in government agencies and consumer groups pushing for vehicles that maximize fuel economy.

But Coletti warned that outrageous performance numbers might invite increased regulatory pressure.

Still, Knott said to expect a proliferation of 1,000-horsepower cars from exotic brands such as Volkswagen AG’s Bugatti. The $1.2 million Bugatti EB16.4 Veyron boasts 947 horses and arrives on U.S. shores this year.

The 575-horsepower Saleen S7 from Steve Saleen’s California-based Saleen Inc., does the 0-to-60 sprint in 2.9 seconds.

That compares to a 0-to-60 time of 5.3 seconds to 7.5 seconds for a 2005 Ford Mustang with 200 to 300 horsepower, according to CarandDriver.com.

Dave Hill, chief engineer of General Motors Corp.’s Chevrolet Corvette program, said mainstream automakers will build vehicles that exceed the 500-horsepower threshold in the near future.

“There’s going to be five to 10 in a year or two,” Hill said.

Knott said horsepower ratings will eventually plateau, perhaps somewhere between 500 — the maximum output of the ‘04 Dodge SRT-10 pickup — and 1,000 horsepower.

Chrysler is already capable of building a 1,000-horsepower vehicle, he said, but it would likely present handling challenges that would require a significant amount of expensive re-engineering.

Hill said “power with control” is a prime objective of automakers vying for a piece of the lucrative high performance vehicle market.

Do-it-yourself tuners alone spend $27 billion annually on high-performance products, according to the Specialty Equipment Manufacturing Association, a trade group that represents auto accessory and performance parts makers.

“Engineering’s duty is to make sure these vehicles have some societal relevance,” Hill said. “(We have to make sure) that they’re safe to be operated on public roads with other ordinary traffic and that they use technology to do many things well.”

Vehicle stability control systems, for example, can mitigate conditions such as fishtailing by automatically decelerating a vehicle and gently applying brake pressure.

Coletti said the unknown factor is the driver.

“Some are very good,” he said. “Some are not so good. Our job is to build vehicles that makes them better drivers.”

Oklahoma product liability lawyer Richard Denney called speed and acceleration, combined with bad handling, the “deadliest factors you can have on the road.”

“If consumers would be honest with themselves, if manufacturers would be honest with themselves, there is no need for a 500- to 1,000-horsepower car,” said Denney, who has represented numerous plaintiffs in lawsuits against automakers.

Perhaps, but automakers know the performance market is a viable one.

“You still have the enthusiasts out there and their bragging right is horsepower,” Knott said. “They may not have 0-to-60 time that’s any better than the guy who’s got 500 horsepower. But he says, ‘I’ve got a 750-horsepower car.’”

You can reach Eric Mayne at (313) 799-2618 or emayne@detnews.com

 

[hAZcAT]

most of those cars that listed are out of the price range of most people, if you started seeing these cars like you see SUVs then I think you would see a problem.

 

[UB2 SLOW]

Most major automakers, including the Big Three, are producing high-performance version of mainstream vehicles, such as the Ford SVT Focus.

Ok, other than this piece here that was a good article!

 

[stangmata50l]

What is it they say?

HP sells cars, torque wins races.

It's all marketing. Like when you see a 250hp, 6-cyl, soccer mom SUV with AWD bombing around the rockies. Sure, but pull a trailer with it and see what the hype is.

I personally think that it is great that the car companies are building high output vehicles, may I remind everyone this is a Vette board . Like Hazcat said, most of those cars are out of most people price ranges anyway.

 

[Ken]

My point was more along the lines of, when are we going to have the government, i.e., the EPA, Nader's raiders, all of those people who want to control how others live, etc., step in and shut this whole thing down again. There are a lot of people out there who would like nothing better than to have us all drive identical little blue jelly beans with sewing machine motors.

 

[warren s]

Its amazing that folks arent being peeled off the roads in large numbers. When that starts to happen, the insurance companies will lobby the feds to start the trend to go back to ford tarus clones.

 

[DRTH VTR]

As I was reading all this, I saw one difference between now and the '60s. The GTO, Road Runner, etc were priced so that hard working young people could afford a new car. That is less true now. The prices of the high performance cars is relatively high. That means they are mostly owned by older, more experienced drivers.

 

[stangmata50l]

As I was reading all this, I saw one difference between now and the '60s. The GTO, Road Runner, etc were priced so that hard working young people could afford a new car. That is less true now. The prices of the high performance cars is relatively high. That means they are mostly owned by older, more experienced drivers.

\

Or young irrisponsible kids with rich unexperienced drivers for parents.

 

[RedRagTop]

That Saleen S7, man. This may be my world favourite, and made in USA!

Here is the link. Check those pics out!

http://www.saleen.com/auto/S7/s7.htm

 

[Edmond]

most of those cars that listed are out of the price range of most people, if you started seeing these cars like you see SUVs then I think you would see a problem.

Plus the fact that most of those vehicles have such low production numbers that their emissions are quite irrelevant in the big picture.

The Z06 is the most produced of those cars. How many GT2's or Vipers do you see? Aren't Vipers made at less than 1,900 vehicles per year? And that's just made, can't say how many are actually sold. And then after they're sold, we couldn't say how many are actually driven.

 

[Classicvette63]

I've been saying this for awhile. Eventually too much is going to be too much. The over-exuberance is going to kill the golden goose. I mean, really, a 572 cubic inch crate engine? Some kid is going to drop one of those in a clapped out nova and crash into a school bus full of orphans then it will be all over the news. Engine 3 times the size of normal cars, blah, blah, blah.. true it is 15 large, but plenty of kids drop that on their ricers all the time. It's only a matter of time. classic

 

[Edmond]

HP truly does sell cars. The Z06's 405hp is by no means shabby, but it's the least of the bunch. It's probably the most fuel efficient at 19 city and 20 highway and it's considered a low emission vehicle.

I think that a lot of people forget that more hp is just one way of making a car go faster. There are weight, gearing and aerodynamic issues that people don't bother to discuss. Honestly, those are boring issues! Who really goes into a dealership and asks, "What's the co-efficient of drag on that car?" :L

 

[JohnZ]

How many GT2's or Vipers do you see? Aren't Vipers made at less than 1,900 vehicles per year? And that's just made, can't say how many are actually sold. And then after they're sold, we couldn't say how many are actually driven.

The Viper is indeed a unique situation - production is 1900-2700 a year, and the entire model year (August thru July) is always sold out by January; every Viper built is a "sold order" with a customer waiting for it - none are built for dealer inventory.

When the new 2003 Viper was introduced, existing Viper owners were given first crack at the cars with vouchers, and the entire model year's production was sold out in less than one day, several months before production started; not one was allocated to a dealer. Dealers didn't get any allocations until the 2004 model was introduced, and then only for customer sold orders.

The average Viper owner earns $300,000 a year, has six other cars, 70% of them own their own business (and are finally enjoying the fruits of years of hard work building their business), and 1/3 of them own more than one Viper.

Fantastic group of owners to work with - I was the Viper Plant Manager and Co-Leader of Team Viper from 1995-2001, when I retired.
:cool