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Knock-Off Problem??

C

chipster

Guest
I have a '66 427 roadster with reproduction knock-off's that are approximately 20 years old. (The car has had less than a thousand miles in the last 20 years). The problem is, the "safety" pins will not stay in. I am using hardened "roll pins" that are so tight that I have to tap them in the hole with a hammer. I tried ordering solid pins from Paddock - but they are smaller than the hole. Should I try Loctite? Some other type pins? I am afraid it is a matter of time until one of the wheels comes off.
 

Subfixer

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 28, 2002
Messages
634
Location
Groton, CT. USA
Corvette
1964 White Roadster
I have used roll pins, steel pins, and aluminum pins, but haven't had your particular problem. What I do want to emphasize is that the pins do NOT keep the spinner from coming off. Proper installation of the spinner keeps it on. Realistically, the pins only keep the spinners from being stolen by unfamiliar crooks and they will play hell with the treads on the adaptor and the spinner if you forget to pull them out before knocking the spinner off.
The spinner is held on by torque. If they are installed properly and maintained properly, the spinners won't back off even without the pins. The proper, printable, installation technique can be found on Long Island Corvette's website.
 

Tom Bryant

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Administrator
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Nov 9, 2000
Messages
7,304
Location
Edgerton, Ohio, United States
Corvette
1959 black 270hp (9/2/69) 1981 Beige L81(10/20/80)
Only the repro spinners have the pin. The originals don't and it is necessary to get in the habit of using the lead or a plastic dead weight hammer on them before each outing just to be safe. Some people used to drill and tap them for a small allen set screw but that ruined the spinner for NCRS judging.

Tom
 
C

Craig -1965

Guest
Knock off wheel.

I have a 1965 convertible that happens to have the same wheels. Let me share an interesting drive home last month. First I live in Souther California where everyone drives like their ass is on fire. While coming home from dinner, driving the Newport Fwy, at 70 mph's the left rear desides to exit from the car going over the the "fast" lane. My wife ask if we were having a flat. I said sort of there goes the rear tire as it passed on the left. I looked in the rear widow to see one of the prettest and expensive sparklers coming from the left rear (this is one of those time we do not touch the brakes). I proceeded to steer the car to the shoulder and called old Triple A for a flat bed.

The moral of the story after $1200+ is the pins "DO KEEP THE WHEELS ON" and if you enjoy driving you inspect your wheels weekly. Right after the weekly car wash.

Regarding the pin size on your wheel, the "NEW" wheel I just purchased has a pin that I personally thing is toooooo small. My other wheels have pins a little larger and I'm going to change the new one.:duh
 

Tom Bryant

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Administrator
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Messages
7,304
Location
Edgerton, Ohio, United States
Corvette
1959 black 270hp (9/2/69) 1981 Beige L81(10/20/80)
I just happened to think that I have seen repro knock offs in a bolt on type wheel. The knock off wing nut and cone cover the lug nuts and can't be told from the real thing. If I were to buy repros I would go this way and keep the originals for show only. I have lost a rear wheel off a Corvette before too. Not much fun but you do get to practice your fiberglass repair skills.

Tom
 

tsarbar

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 4, 2002
Messages
48
Location
Westchester, Ca
Corvette
Riverside Red 63 F.I. Coupe, Torch Red 61 w/540
My repo KO's have an aluminum tapered pin. Without the taper they mayl fail to remain seated.
Also if you have the hole lined up close enough you should not have to use a hammer to install them... a pair of needle nose pliers is all that I use.
 
C

Craig -1965

Guest
Knock Offs

tSBAR,
I noticed that your comment was the pins won't stay in. The pins are designed so the length is retained by the cap. No cap or too short on the pin length and it is possible for the pins to come out. One other item I have found with my wheels is, it is impossible to get the knock off nuts to the correct tightness the first time. There are levels of torque, I found 3-4 levels. When I am putting a wheel on you can get the nut to level 2 with some work. Then I take a short drive, come home and attack the knock off to get to the next level. Believe me you will know when you get to the max, which by the way I do not use.

Hope this helps............:beer
 

tsarbar

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 4, 2002
Messages
48
Location
Westchester, Ca
Corvette
Riverside Red 63 F.I. Coupe, Torch Red 61 w/540
Craig.
You're correct in saying the pins are a saftey feature and true.. the cap does retain the pins. But does chipster need to install them so tight? Otherwise how does one remove them when they are seated flush with the adapter?

Also did you determine what caused the wheel to come off on the freeway?
 
C

Craig -1965

Guest
Knock Offs

Chipster,
Maybe I'm paranoid regarding the tightness of the wheels, but nicer to be safe than sorry. I personally tighten mine to the level 3 or the third matching hole after the first hole that requires a small amount of beating with the hammer. Where else can you have a classic car and beat it with a hammer because there is no option.

Regarding why the wheel came off, one can only speculate since the wheel and all hardware was lost. If I was a betting person I would say a pis*ed off ex-wife. :bash
 
X

XLR8OR

Guest
I installed set screws as described in an NCRS article. I had an accident last year when the right front wheel came off. Fortunately I was only going 30mph at the time on a residential street so the damage was limited to the wheel well.

I check the spinners religiously and still had an accident. I strongly recommend investigating this procedure.
 
Joined
Jan 1, 2002
Messages
7,246
Location
Washington, Michigan
Corvette
'67 Marina Blue Convertible
It's essential to use anti-seize on the adapter/spinner threads, and on the conical spinner/wheel mating surface; without it, the threads tend to gall at high torque, and most of the effort you put into wailing on the spinner is wasted overcoming thread friction and mating surface friction. "Torque" doesn't keep them on - clamping force keeps them on, and you can't develop maximum clamping force with torque on the spinner unless the friction surfaces (threads and mating surface) are lubricated so they move relative to each other as you apply torque to the spinner. I always used a 4# shot-filled dead-blow plastic-coated hammer, and beat hell out of them; never had any loosen up (and marked them with a Sharpie for quick visual checks).

The genuine Halibrands on my Grand Sport were the same way, except they have longer ears on the spinners and are easier to wail on; I raced the car, so I added stainless safety wire from the end of the spinner to the spider of the wheel with a little slack built in for quick visual checks - if the wire was straight, they had backed off a little; but they never did - always used anti-seize on the threads and conical mating surfaces, never had one of the Halibrands loosen up either.

pubimage.asp

:Steer
 
C

Craig -1965

Guest
Knock offs

John,
Love your wheels, if I wasn't of the mind set to keep my 1965 original (except for the repro wheels) I'd jump on a set of Halibrands. I've looked at installing safetywire but haven't found a method that is suitable. My latest is stainless custom dowel pins with a .001 hole clearance. I don't like the idea that the snapped on cap is responsible for retaining the pins. Another thing I started is when the pins are installed I wack the spinner so the the pins are retained by friction and won't fall off is the cap desides to jump ship. Good idea of the anti-seize.....


:beer
 
T

tamskib

Guest
I am trying to remove my knock off wheels for the first time. The pin broke off when I tried to pull it out. How do I get it out now?
 

Andy.E

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 29, 2002
Messages
65
Location
SF Bay Area, CA, USA
Corvette
1965 327/300 Convt Milano Maroon/Saddle/Saddle
My '65 has an older set of repro KO's and the spinners do NOT have the cutouts for the pins. Having driven 15,000 miles without pins over ten years I can tell you with a high degree of certainty that the pins aren't required to keep the wheels on. The proper installation procedure is absolutely critical, including repeated checks every 100 miles or so for the first 1000 miles after installation.

The procedure posted on the Long Island Corvette Supply web site (http://www.licorvette.com/pdfcatalogfiles/KOwheel.PDF) is good. The one thing I would add is that each time you come back in to tighten the wheels, you need to get them off the ground before you start pounding.

Notwithstanding all of the above, I recently bought a new set of spinners with holes for the pins (my adapters already have the holes - go figure) and I'll be installing them when I replace my tires next year.

Andy
 
T

tamskib

Guest
I just purchased a red 1966 coupe. It has knock offs, I thought they were the bolt on versions but it didn't turn out that way I took the center caps off today and none of the holes were lined up, the previous had forced some small screws in the openings. How do you manage to get the holes to line up, seems like you can only force the spinners to tighten so far.

Thanks for the help, this is all new to me.
 
6

'63split

Guest
Hi Guys,

I recently purchased a '63 coupe with knock offs. I don't have pins to lock the spinners on the '63. I've only driven it for short distances and I check the spinners by hitting them with a lead hammer after each run like the manual says to do. I will apply never sieze to the threads to get a better torque. I'll certainly keep a close eye on the spinners to ensure they don't back off.

Best Regards,
Mike
 

IH2LOSE

Well-known member
Joined
May 24, 2001
Messages
3,908
Location
We Will All Meet Again
Corvette
1966,and a 1962 thats almost complete
WHY DID YOUR WHEEL COME OFF

I would investicate that.

I have no pins for my wheels.I install them correctly,I check them often,I have never found them loos.And allthought I did not go alot of miles this year with the car prior years I have.

I was going to post about this BUt I had invited this fellow to join our web site for an education and did not want to imbarres him with this post .I was at a show in the fall a fellow had a new 65 (new to him) with KO on it and was explaining his wheels loosen up (He still drove it thought left front was a baby tap away from spinning off ) We took his wheels off one at a time to make sure they were on the right side of the car,and nothing was in the back of them or a problem with the threads.He started to lower the car before I could set the spinner with a couple of whacks.I asked him what he was doing and he explained the weight of the car will hold the wheel from spinning .I explained to him about the tapper and why the wheel had to be firmly planted prior to setting the car back on its tire.All present had felt we had figured out why his tire were getting loose. Also this fellow did not know how to WHACK the spinner.He was so choacked up on his hammer (holding near the head of the hammer not on the end of it )he never delivered a direct WHACKIt was like he was trying to tap it on with a rock .They all seemed to be lip wristed hits.He was actually pertrefied the way I set his wheels because he thought I was going to snapp them off.

I
 
6

'63split

Guest
Hello,

You can tighten the rear spinners while off the ground while holding the wheels tight with the parking brake applied, but you need someone applying pressure to the brake pedal to tighten the fronts while off the ground. At least this is what I've experienced with my recently aquired KO's.

Regards,
Mike
 

Andy.E

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 29, 2002
Messages
65
Location
SF Bay Area, CA, USA
Corvette
1965 327/300 Convt Milano Maroon/Saddle/Saddle
YES - it's definitely a 2-person job.

And as IH2LOSE pointed out, you really have to get into it and whack the crap out of the spinners. If you're new to knock-off wheels I HIGHLY RECOMMEND you have an experienced owner demonstrate this for you. Otherwise you may find it hard to believe you can hit them that hard without damaging them.

It really makes you appreciate how easy our modern cars are, does't it?

Andy
 
Joined
Jan 1, 2002
Messages
7,246
Location
Washington, Michigan
Corvette
'67 Marina Blue Convertible
Re: As in Original GS?????

c5d said:
Not meaning to hijack the thread, but...
Are we talking one of the "Five" here?

Inquiring minds just have to know!

Thanks,
D

D - Nope, not one of the five ($$$); I built it from a D&D tube-frame and raw body shell as an exact replica of Tom Armstrong's GS, chassis #003, as it was run at Sebring in March, 1964 by Foyt and Cannon.

200222815154-4-GSscan5(2).jpg

:Steer
 

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