L98 Timing confusion HELP!!

[Mart]

I set the base timing at what I think is about 8* BTDC (EST wire disconnected and engine warmed up) now the she idles at about 700rpm and the timing mark is about 1-1/4 inches past the edge of the timing marker, I mean no where near the scale, and I think she is pinging or knocking. I'm not sure never heard one before.

I thought it was an injector going bad, but everything sounds fine with a stethascope.

if the mark is that far away would this be causing the pinging?

Help
Mart

 

[Mart]

Hello Hello Hello Hello Hello..........

Anybody out there........

Help.......Please.....


Thanx Mart

 

[Aurora40]

I used to have an '87 Z51. When you set the timing, wasn't the car idling then? What I mean is, why did the timing mark suddenly move that far from where you'd set it? I always set the timing at idle. I believe that's the correct way. Did you check the timing as you were tightening down the distributor? Was it from hooking the EST back up?

If the timing is that far advanced, yeah it definitely could be causing the knock. If I were you, I'd just go and set the timing again, perhaps you accidentally moved something.

 

[Mart]

I disconnected the EST then set the timing at about 8* BTDC, when I reconnected the EST it moved way out of whack!!!

What up wid dat.

Thanx Mart

 

[Aurora40]

ok. Well, you could try going with about 6* or less instead to see if it goes away. The timing will move once you hook the wire back up (I assume you shut the car off, hooked it up, cleared the code, then started it), but I really can't recall how much it tends to move. What's the recommended timing setting? I thought it was around 6*? It's been a while, though.

I guess really you should find out if the car is pinging or not. It would be a bit uncommon to ping at idle, and much more common to ping at WOT. It sounds not unlike a pinging or knocking. A smallish ping, but many of them, more as you get on the gas more. It's a mechanical kinda sound, almost like some small little metal thing is getting banged around a lot.

 

[Mart]

That's exactly what it sounds like, and hard as hell to trace. It almost sounds like it is coming from the injectors.

 

[Moonunit 451]

I think 6 degrees is right. Back it off a couple and try it again. It will advance significantly after reconecting the EST.

Something else you need to consider. These balancers or dampeners have a rubber mount and do go bad and spin out of line. That means replacement. If your running a high perfomance rebuind the timing is critiacal! If not, I would keep backing off the timing until the pinging is minimal for the time being, but you should definately determine if the balancer has spun some, it is common.

 

[Mart]

I don't believe it is the balancer as I replaced that last year.

Thanks Moonunit.

 

[vetteboy86]

I believe on my car the factory spec is 6 degrees at 600 RPM. Does it not make a difference at what RPM the engine is at when you set the timing. Just a thought.


Good Luck
Craig

 

[Mart]

So if I was to want to reset the Min Idle, the TPS and the timing, what order would be best to set these in.

 

[plumcrazy]

this thing comes in really handy good luck

How to Adjust your Early C4 TPS and Idle Speed
by Lars Grimsrud
SVE Automotive Restoration
Musclecar, Collector & Exotic Auto Repair & Restoration
Broomfield, CO Rev. New 6-15-00

This tech paper will discuss the procedure for correct adjustment of the Minimum Idle Speed and for adjustment of the Throttle Position Switch (TPS) on the early C4 Corvette TPI systems. These steps apply specifically to the 1985 model year, and in general to other years. Later model years do not have adjustable TPS's.

General
Idle speed and off-idle throttle response on the early TPI systems is determined by correct adjustment of the minimum idle speed screw combined with a correct setting of the TPS. I've seen many of these cars that have had their idle speed "corrected" by well-intentioned mechanics and owners by simply screwing the minimum idle speed screw in a few turns. This really messes up the settings, and will not make your car perform properly. Doing a correct setup of the TPS is one of the easiest ways to make your car feel and respond better. To maximize the benefit of this procedure, I recommend that you first remove your Throttle Body (TB), disassemble it (it's incredible easy - there are a total of about 5 pieces in it…), clean the TB up really good with some spray carb cleaner, and put it back together. A nice clean TB will really put an edge on the performance improvement you will get by doing this procedure.

The Service Manual has instructions for doing these operations, but the directions are scattered through several sections of the Manual. Here is the complete, step-by-step process for doing this (not including TB rebuild). All specs and steps are taken directly from the Manual (all 3 different sections), and this process is absolutely correct.

Tools & Equipment
You will need the following tools and equipment:

1. A set of Torx wrenches. You can buy a complete set in a nice, genuine plastic pouch at Sears.
2. A good digital voltmeter that will read voltages less than 1 volt.
3. A paper clip.
4. A small screwdriver.

Procedure
There are two electrical components on the TB that you will be working with: The TPS and the Idle Air Control Valve (IAC). Make sure that the connectors for these two components are easily accessible and that you can easily disconnect the IAC.

You will also be playing with the diagnostic connector under the dash. Remove the cover (if it's still in place). Bend your paper clip into a "U" shape. You will be playing with the two top right hand terminals ("A" and "B") in the connector.

First step is to set the minimum idle speed. If nobody has messed with this on your car before, the set screw will be covered by a pressed-in plug. It's located on the driver's side of the TB. Remove this plug if it's there.
With the IAC connected and the ignition "OFF," stick the paper clip into the diagnostic connector from "A" to "B." This grounds the diagnostic lead.
Turn the ignition to the "ON" position without starting the engine. Wait 30 seconds.
Now, with the ignition still in the "ON" position, disconnect the IAC connector at the IAC.
Remove the paper clip from the diagnostic connector.
Start the engine and allow it to reach normal operating temperature. The idle speed will probably be really low, and you may have to coax the engine a bit with the gas pedal to keep it running for a while.
If your car is an automatic, set the parking brake and put the transmission in "DRIVE." If your car is a manual, leave it in neutral.
Adjust the idle speed screw to obtain 400 rpm in drive or 450 in neutral.
Shut off the engine and re-connect the IAC.
That's it for idle speed. Now on to the TPS.

There are 3 wires stacked vertically on the TPS. You will need to be able to measure the voltage between the two top wires. You can either buy a special harness connector that breaks these wires out (from Mid America), or gently pierce the insulation of the wires with the pointy prongs on your volt meter. You can also stick a paper clip into each of the two top locations of the connector and clamp onto the paper clips to measure the voltage. Whatever is easiest for you.

Turn the ignition to the "ON" position without starting the engine.
Loosen the TPS Torx adjustment screws.
Set your volt meter to a low scale DC volt setting that will accurately read less than 1 volt.
Measure the voltage between the two top TPS wires.
Adjust the TPS by rotating its position until you get a reading of .54 volts.
Tighten the Torx screws and recheck the voltage. Re-adjust if necessary to make sure voltage is right at .54.
Turn the ignition "OFF."
You are now in perfect adjustment on idle speed and TPS output. Start the engine. It may take a few seconds for the car to "catch on" to its new settings.

Questions, Comments & Technical Assistance
If you have questions or comments regarding this article, or if you notice any errors that need to be corrected (which is quite possible since I'm writing this from memory…), please feel free to drop me an e-mail. Also, if you need any technical assistance or advice regarding this process, or other maintenance issues, feel free to contact me:

lars.grimsrud@lmco.com

 

[Mart]

Cool, thanks alot Plumcrazy, when is the best time to adjust the timing? Before or after?

 

[Moonunit 451]

Set the timing after the TPS and idle.

 

[bradvette]

I disconnected the EST then set the timing at about 8* BTDC, when I reconnected the EST it moved way out of whack!!!

What up wid dat.

Thanx Mart

what up wid dis is that 14* is added by re-connectig the tan/black EST wire harness while engine is still running after you did the timing check. what you need to do after checking/adjusting timing is turn off the engine, THEN reconnect the EST wire, then be sure to clear the code 42 that always results from EST wire disconnect (otherwise, the IAC valve is affected and you'll likely idle at 2500 RPMs or so) by disconnecting the neg
(-) battery terminal for about 1 minute.

 

[Mart]

Excellent little piece of the puzzle Bradvette, Thanx

Mart