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LS2 egine in a C3

try2pas

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Sep 14, 2006
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197
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Thompson Falls, Mt
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1972- original; 1980 - restomod; 2016 - Z06
For more power than a ZZ4 crate engine and better gas mileage than a ZZ4 would it be difficult to put in a LS2 '06 vette engine in my 1980? Would then that engine hook up to a L460E tranny that I would have to put in too? And would it all fit OK? Anyone out there done that or an LS1 engine which is about the same size? I am basing this on the net horsepower of a ZZ4 at 355 which would make the bhp about 300. The LS2 has a bhp of 400. Would it not make sense then that the LS2 would out perform the ZZ4 because of more bhp in my 80 vette?
 

KANE

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KY
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Dark Blue 1982 Trans Am(s): Polo Green 1995 MN6
For more power than a ZZ4 crate engine and better gas mileage than a ZZ4 would it be difficult to put in a LS2 '06 vette engine in my 1980? Would then that engine hook up to a L460E tranny that I would have to put in too? And would it all fit OK? Anyone out there done that or an LS1 engine which is about the same size? I am basing this on the net horsepower of a ZZ4 at 355 which would make the bhp about 300. The LS2 has a bhp of 400. Would it not make sense then that the LS2 would out perform the ZZ4 because of more bhp in my 80 vette?

It makes GREAT sense... unless you want to save some money and your budget is tight. An LS2 retrofit isn't cheap, but you can save yourself some money if you do it yourself.

Pat did an LS1 swap. Very similar to the LS2...
(patsnitrovette)

Here is a great picture his LS1 in his C3-
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2908784750052841409DckxnO
 

Koop

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Mar 16, 2005
Messages
545
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Kalifornia
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YELLOW 69 modified GM Crate ZZ383, LS2 TBSS
I wanted an LS6 in my '69.

Then the mechanic (a long time friend and Corvette mechanic) showed me a 1970 with a GM crate ZZ383. It took him about 5 minutes to show me enough reasons to go with the "it just goes right in" 425HP / 460TQ ZZ383. Among several reasons, cost of the install/conversion was one of the big issues that helped me choose the ZZ383 over the LS6.
 
W

WhiteKnight

Guest
What Koop said is true.. and you could build that stock 350 into a 383 for far less than an LS2 swap.

Also the OD gears in auto and 6th in manual are what gets the MPG's up there more than the LS2 alone.
 

Koop

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Messages
545
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YELLOW 69 modified GM Crate ZZ383, LS2 TBSS
With all the stuff that comes with the ZZ383 you'd be hard pressed to get your 350 built into a comparable 383 for the $ (unless you can do it yourself). Using improved MPG to recover the cost of getting that LS2 up and running vs. the ZZ383 would take many years. The Aluminum head Stroker is rare, the LS2 is today's L48, they power everything Cadillacs, Corvettes, GTO, Trucks, SSRs etc... It's a very respectable set up if you have the extra cash and the desire. When you get down to it, the ZZ4 is the bomb, you just can't beat that deal! I only got the ZZ383 because I had some extra cash to foolishly blow.
 

Evolution1980

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Cleveland, Ohio
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ZZ4, 700R4, Steeroids rack & pinion, VB&P Brakes
I see that the replies above haven't really directly answered your initial question(s): "dificulty of installation" "hooking up to current trans"
And I can't really answer those questions either. However, I'd have to concur with the others such as Koop. The LS2 is certainly nice, but bang for the buck, it's hard to be the ZZ383. Whether you get the LS2 or the ZZ383, your MPG (as also stated above) is going to be most impacted by your transmission, rear end gearing, and how much you lay on the GO pedal.

I also like the 'older' engine due to simplicity and ability to find plenty of parts / knowledge / etc. I also like the way they look in the older cars versus the newer gen blocks. I like big chrome aircleaners, chrome rocker covers, etc. A lot of that tradition is lost with the newer gen blocks.

Oh yeah...the sound! The older gen blocks still retain the 'traditional' muscle car sound. The newer blocks are slightly different, a bit more 'subdued', IMHO.

For the money, get the ZZ383 and put the savings into other goodies for the car. :D
 

70 LS1

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Aug 4, 2002
Messages
84
Location
Gig Harbor, WA
Corvette
1970 convertible
You can do the LS1/2/6 relatively easy. You need:

engine mounts - vetteworksonline.com
electric fans - 3rd or 4th gen F-body
wiring harness - speartech.com
fuel system
various other parts.

You can attach it to the stock trans. Check out ls1tech.com for info on how. They have a conversions section that is a wealth of info. (I'm a moderator there)

I finished my conversion (LS1 and T56 6-speed) for around $6K.

And even a stock LS1 will blow away a ZZ4. Yes that is a challenge for anyone in the Seattle area.

Check out my site for more info.

http://www.corvetteforum.net/c3/70lt1/ls1.shtml

 

Evolution1980

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ZZ4, 700R4, Steeroids rack & pinion, VB&P Brakes
And even a stock LS1 will blow away a ZZ4.
But for a comparable price, i.e. "Bang For The Buck"??? Hardly...

As priced at Scoggins-Dickey

ZZ4 - $3788.99
LS1 (minus ECM & harness) - $5495.00

...for a difference of: $1706.01. Tag on all the extras you're going to need for the LS1 and the price difference easily becomes well over $2000 premium for the LS1. What extras will he need for the ZZ4? A water pump and oil-filter adapter. Do you still want to run your "stock LS1" against a ZZ4 + another $2000 in "go-fast" upgrades??? I wouldn't...

However...that price difference could drop and performance would increase if he chose the LS2 carburated setup for $400 less than the LS1. However, that still gives ya $1600 in upgrades to the ZZ4.

But to each his own!
:upthumbs
 

70 LS1

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Joined
Aug 4, 2002
Messages
84
Location
Gig Harbor, WA
Corvette
1970 convertible
But for a comparable price, i.e. "Bang For The Buck"??? Hardly...

As priced at Scoggins-Dickey

ZZ4 - $3788.99
LS1 (minus ECM & harness) - $5495.00

...for a difference of: $1706.01. Tag on all the extras you're going to need for the LS1 and the price difference easily becomes well over $2000 premium for the LS1. What extras will he need for the ZZ4? A water pump and oil-filter adapter. Do you still want to run your "stock LS1" against a ZZ4 + another $2000 in "go-fast" upgrades??? I wouldn't...

However...that price difference could drop and performance would increase if he chose the LS2 carburated setup for $400 less than the LS1. However, that still gives ya $1600 in upgrades to the ZZ4.

But to each his own!
:upthumbs

Your right, the ZZ4 would be more bang for the buck, but I didn't see anything in the original post that said anything about price being a factor. Plus he mentioned the 4L60E which would be an overdrive auto giving better mileage.

Most people that do LS1/2/6/7 conversions do the trans as well and get most of what they need from a donor car, i.e. Camaro, Trans Am, GTO, etc. That saves you a ton of money. I picked up the motor and T56 for $3200. That was with 40K miles which is just broken in for these. Since the original poster wants an LS2 and Auto, I would recommend an 05+ GTO setup. You could probably get one for around $3500 then add another 1500 for incidentals (fans, wiring, fuel system, rad hoses, etc.) and you're looking at $5K.

$5K for 350-375 RWHP and 25-27 MPG. Sounds pretty good to me, but like you said.

To each their own.
 

Back9

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Oct 16, 2006
Messages
65
Location
Newark, DE
Corvette
'04 MY Vert MT6
All right all you moder's

I love this stuff - why not build one of each and then keep the one you prefer. Sell the other for a nice gain.
 

zachh

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Aug 1, 2005
Messages
221
Location
virginia beach, va
Corvette
1979 black 'n' silver L82 1978 Trans Am Y88
But for a comparable price, i.e. "Bang For The Buck"??? Hardly...

As priced at Scoggins-Dickey

ZZ4 - $3788.99
LS1 (minus ECM & harness) - $5495.00

...for a difference of: $1706.01. Tag on all the extras you're going to need for the LS1 and the price difference easily becomes well over $2000 premium for the LS1. What extras will he need for the ZZ4? A water pump and oil-filter adapter. Do you still want to run your "stock LS1" against a ZZ4 + another $2000 in "go-fast" upgrades??? I wouldn't...


However...that price difference could drop and performance would increase if he chose the LS2 carburated setup for $400 less than the LS1. However, that still gives ya $1600 in upgrades to the ZZ4.

But to each his own!
:upthumbs

Andy, have you gotten some plastic surgery? Ya loook differnt. :upthumbs
Id go with the 383, get a stroker.
zachh
 

try2pas

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Joined
Sep 14, 2006
Messages
197
Location
Thompson Falls, Mt
Corvette
1972- original; 1980 - restomod; 2016 - Z06
LS1

LS1,

Thanks for all the info on the installation of your LS1. I believe the LS2 and the LS6 put out about the same HP. But the LS6 is out of a z06. Would this make the LS6 a better choice than the LS2? But would a used LS6 be harder to find (I'd think it would be). Could a guy "trick out" a LS2 with a few goodies that would get it up more into the 450HP? And I'm in NW Montana. If you get over this way I'd love to drag you with my ZZ4 and see what happens!

Dave
 

Koop

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Joined
Mar 16, 2005
Messages
545
Location
Kalifornia
Corvette
YELLOW 69 modified GM Crate ZZ383, LS2 TBSS
LS1,

Thanks for all the info on the installation of your LS1. I believe the LS2 and the LS6 put out about the same HP. But the LS6 is out of a z06. Would this make the LS6 a better choice than the LS2? But would a used LS6 be harder to find (I'd think it would be). Could a guy "trick out" a LS2 with a few goodies that would get it up more into the 450HP? And I'm in NW Montana. If you get over this way I'd love to drag you with my ZZ4 and see what happens!

Dave

If you're going to do an LS conversion (cool idea) I'd go with an LS1 or LS2... The LS6 was limited production and parts will be expensive and hard to obtain in the future. The LS6 has a big cool factor since it is exclusive where the LS1 and LS2 are all over the place, I'd bet the LS1 and 2 will be mod friendly for a longer period than an LS6. I try to think long term on my Vette, cost and availbility is an issue to me.

Personally I think the ZZ383 carries the same cool factor that an LS6 does. I do reconize how much work someone went to when I see LS conversion, it's impressive.
 

70 LS1

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Aug 4, 2002
Messages
84
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Gig Harbor, WA
Corvette
1970 convertible
If you're going to do an LS conversion (cool idea) I'd go with an LS1 or LS2... The LS6 was limited production and parts will be expensive and hard to obtain in the future. The LS6 has a big cool factor since it is exclusive where the LS1 and LS2 are all over the place, I'd bet the LS1 and 2 will be mod friendly for a longer period than an LS6. I try to think long term on my Vette, cost and availbility is an issue to me.

The LS6 is just an LS1 with different heads (same as LS2) and different cam. I wouldn't worry about expensive mods or difficulty finding parts, but you will pay more for a real LS6 than an LS1 with heads and cam making more power.

The LS2 would be a better starting point. Its basically an LS1 with a bigger bore. 366 or so cubes versus 346. That means more head options down the road when you want to upgrade. Also you are looking at an instant 50Hp right away and any mods you do will build on that. If 450 is your target, then just add headers and a cam and you will be there. If you want 450 at the wheels, throw on a set of heads and call it good. The electronics are a little different, but there are companies out there that make stand alone harnesses for either so no biggie. Plus the LS2 is the new standard and the LS1 is already phased out of production.

I plan on building a car with my son in a few years and he gets the LS1 that is in my car now. I'll be replacing mine with an LS7 or supercharged LS9.
 

try2pas

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Joined
Sep 14, 2006
Messages
197
Location
Thompson Falls, Mt
Corvette
1972- original; 1980 - restomod; 2016 - Z06
70 LS1

When can a guy buy a LS7? Would the lighter u joints and aluminum rear end on an '80 have to be replaced with stronger to support that horsepower?


Try2pas
 

Evolution1980

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Messages
4,292
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Cleveland, Ohio
Corvette
ZZ4, 700R4, Steeroids rack & pinion, VB&P Brakes
When can a guy buy a LS7? Would the lighter u joints and aluminum rear end on an '80 have to be replaced with stronger to support that horsepower?
Scoggins-Dickey has 'em listed at $13,000. But unavailable still. You could have one essentially built for you like Roadster Fan did. If I recall correctly, his is actually a C5R engine, not an 'official' LS7, but I believe it's pretty much the same thing.
As to the second part of your question, I'd probably think so. But you're getting ahead of yourself if you don't beef up the transmission as well. I know a stock TH350 or 700R4 ain't gonna handle it. I'm not sure about a stock L460E. I'd think not, or not for very long. But I don't know anything about those trans.
 

70 LS1

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Messages
84
Location
Gig Harbor, WA
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1970 convertible
Scoggins-Dickey has 'em listed at $13,000. But unavailable still. You could have one essentially built for you like Roadster Fan did. If I recall correctly, his is actually a C5R engine, not an 'official' LS7, but I believe it's pretty much the same thing.
As to the second part of your question, I'd probably think so. But you're getting ahead of yourself if you don't beef up the transmission as well. I know a stock TH350 or 700R4 ain't gonna handle it. I'm not sure about a stock L460E. I'd think not, or not for very long. But I don't know anything about those trans.


They are out there. There is a guy that lives near me with an LS7 in his 88ish Monte Carlo. Pretty Bad Ass.
 

rocket22

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Sep 15, 2006
Messages
94
Location
mo
A friend of mine is putting LS-7 in a 70 right now.I haven't heard about any problems.I'll see what I can find out.
 

patsnitrovette

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Dec 15, 2001
Messages
348
Location
absecon,newjersey
Corvette
1973 electronblue LS1
I havent been on in awhile,i absolutely love my ls1 swap,i have just under 2000 in the whole thing,thats including building the motor up from a brand new bare block.I used a stock 99 fbody harness and rewired it myself to work,no $500 dollar harness ,just a $50 harness.I had wait 4 me performance(jesse) sell me a programmed computer to what mods i had for $150 shipped.I got tons of deals from ebay ,ls1tech and the corvetteforum for sale section.The ls6 intake i got with 28 lb injectors and rail for $85 from a member.The deals are out there to do it cheap.The motor i had before i built a 360 with zz4 roller cam world products sportsman 2 heads and a modified tuned port injection and the ls1 blows it away.Im running a 700r4 behind it had the pcm programmed for a 6 speed so the pcm doesnt know its not a 4l60e,made my own bracket to hook to the throttle body for the tv cable and shifts fine.ONly issue ive had so far was my fuel pump is in tha tank without baffles,i had to stop for a light really hard on a low tank level and burnt the pump up.So winter project is building a new tank with baffles.
 

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