"New" Callaways?

[jonstr]

I'm a long time Corvette guy, but know very little about Callaway cars, so I apologize up front if this is a dumb or frequently asked question. I would like to add a Callaway car to my garage at some point and am really just starting to do some research.

It's my understanding that, at least for a while, it was possible to order a Callaway from your Chevy dealer - it appeared as an option on the order form. I believe that was only done for a limited time (maybe from 87-91, if I'm reading the info on the Callaway Owners Group website correctly), but I'm not sure.

When I was out looking at Callaway's website today (my first time), it looked like they were still offering conversions on the aftermarket. If so, how can these be differentiated from those "original" Callaways available as a factory RPO? Is it as simple as the "original" Callaways are the TT cars and all the SuperNatural cars are the aftermarket ones? Does it matter from a valuation perspective (it seems like it should)?

Also, if anyone can suggest a good resource for info on these cars, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks in advance,
Jonstr

 

[*89x2*]

Hey - Glad to have another Callaway Enthusiast here
Glad you asked the question...

Yes, the 87-91 Callaway Twin Turbo Corvettes carried an option number from GM - It is RPO - B2K. When GM changed to the LT1 based Vettes in 92, Callaway Cars shifted gears and conceived the "Supernatural package" which an owner took their own car there (to Old Lyme) or had Callaway source one and built the car to the owners specs - Engine options, Bodywork package (Aerobody), Suspension, wheels, exhaust, brakes, interior, etc - sky was almost the limit here (no RPO # here on these "SNAT's" )

After the C4 run ended, Callaway continued working w/ the Vette chassis and also developed the Callaway C12. Callaway would like to become its own brand for its own automobile and this is very close - while still being based upon the Corvette C5 chassis - No RPO # though on these machines - All Callaway Constructed cars were documented and numbered This helps on value retention and keeps Callaways out of the crowded "tuner market"

Callaway is introducing its "Sport Lineup" at Carlisle this August and it will be interesting to see what they will showcase - A lot of performance but not quite as steep of an entry fee as a "Full on" C12 might run someone...

Hope I didn't leave anything out -

 

[jonstr]

Thanks for the info, that helps alot. I have one more question, and I realize it's a loaded one.

I have some experience with aftermarket conversions (I did an LPE motor for my prior ZR1 and have done a convertible conversion on my Z06), and my general experience has been that if a modification has that "aftermarket" tag on it, it tends to be less desirable (should you decide to sell it), and getting that money out of the car is a near impossibility. On the other hand, RPOs - particularly lower production engine options - can be very desirable over time.

Since it appears that I have the option of finding a B2K car or finding a later model C4 and having an SNAT built, what is the general experience with Callaway cars between the B2K cars and the SNATs? Do the SNATs hold their value as well as the B2K cars?

BTW, I'm not asking with the intent of finding a car I can make a buck on. Lord knows I've flushed plenty of money on these cars (and enjoyed every minute of it). I'm just trying to understand the market and set my own expectations.

Thanks again,
Jonstr

 

[Peer81]

Hello Jonstr,

Good luck finding the Callaway you like.
I'm also still in the research state (for the next 5 years minimal! ) So i'm very interested in this topic to get some good info.

I was almost thinking you were trying to compensate the Dow Jones , but luckely your last line made it clear. And the great vette collection you have already!
Good luck!

Greets Peter.

 

[HoldHard]

First, welcome to the forum.

Seeing the cars listed in your signature, I'm not going to bore you with things you already know regarding "collectability" and rare Corvettes. What I can provide is my thought process when I bought my Callaway.

I had a very well optioned 2001 C5 convertible and sold it to get the 1991 Callaway. Going back ten years would not seem like the smart thing to do, but the following impacted my decision:

1) The C6 is being introduced at the North American International Show in January 2004 (or so GM and Dave Hill are saying at this time). That is going to drive down the value of the C5 just as the C5 introduction devalued the C4s.

2) Late spring or early summer is the right time to sell a convertible. This is what I've called the "dump it now before you get burned" syndrome.

3) According to a monthly car dealer subscription service that tracks car prices, the twin turbos appear to have bottomed out and are actually on the increase although very slightly.

4) Even though most people think that you went to Pep Boys and bought an aftermarket nose piece and hood with a bunch of holes in them, most Corvette owners have heard of the Callaway but have never seen one unless they have attended Carlisle or Bloomington. Even then they might have walked right by thinking it was just another modified C4.

I knew the value of my C5 was going to go down. That was a fact. Hopefully the TT Callaway will go the other way. Predicting the value of Corvettes is an inexact science at best. Looking at past history, they have a U shaped value curve, starting out high and then sinking. The ones that have survived, not been wrecked or raced into the ground follow that upswing on other side. It just depends on finding the right buyer and meeting on a number. Sometimes that can be done in minutes, other times it can take months.

Good luck with your research and keep us updated on your findings.

HoldHard

 

[jonstr]

This is all great info. Thanks alot! But I guess I lied about 'one more question' - I have lots more questions. One more for now and then I promise to stop for a while...

Was the Aerobody ever part of the B2K option or was it ordered separately? If it was separate, was it also an RPO or was it ordered directly through Callaway?

Ok, I guess that was two more...

Thanks again,
Jonstr

 

[HoldHard]

B2K just got you the engine work and the associated turbo plumbing. The Aerobody was a separate option that was mostly installed by the dealership, although some were installed by a shop in or near Old Lyme, CT. There was no RPO code for the Aerobody, at least none that I could find.

There were several additional options such as the Dymag wheels. Those show up in the first column near the bottom of the sticker shown below.

If I'm wrong, somebody please jump in here.

The dealer then took the amount at the bottom of the sticker and on a separate invoice added the Aerobody for just under $5K.

HoldHard

 

[TurboLuigi]

Here is my invoice. Not detailed but it has the Aerobody package and must have been included in the Callaway Vehicle Price:

I have some general history and information about Callaway Twin Turbo's on my website. Just click the URL in my signature.

Good luck in your quest!

Luigi
:cool

 

[*89x2*]

Here is my invoice. Not detailed but it has the Aerobody package and must have been included in the Callaway Vehicle Price:

I have some general history and information about Callaway Twin Turbo's on my website. Just click the URL in my signature.

Good luck in your quest!

Luigi
:cool

Luigi - On your Callaway, I am thinking that the aerobody was factored into the final figure - Some 91's did not get the Aerobody though...

Really, the only options Callaway offered towards the end were Koolof windshield and the aerobody which I have only seen the windshield on the sticker - all other options were Chevy Vette options - like trim & radios

Early Callaways, you could order interior upgrades and after the fact, the 100 plus pkg,and others could be "added"

Doc's are a << H U G E >> plus with these cars as I passed on one car w/ zero paperwork and more than a few owners

(Luigi, looks like they had a bit of fun for 299 miles on your car before release Hold hard's got the tour of Old Lyme for 186 miles -mine was 107, if I recall )

Enjoy

 

[jonstr]

I have some general history and information about Callaway Twin Turbo's on my website. Just click the URL in my signature.

Thanks Luigi. I actually found your website earlier today from another post of yours and have been through it. It's a great site and has some great info. I learned alot from reading through it.

There is almost $17K difference in the Callaway Vehicle Price between yours and HoldHard's cars, yet they appear to have all the same items listed from Callaway (I'm not looking at the GM factory options). Any idea why this is so? I know yours is a convertible and HoldHard's is a coupe, but I don't think the base price was that different from the factory. Is most of that $17K the Aerobody kit (which I don't see listed on either invoice)?

Thanks again,
Jonstr

 

[TurboLuigi]

Chris,

The post prior to mine had a lower Callaway Vehicle price so I presume that car did not have the Aerobody originally and was added later on. My car does have the Aerobody and both cars are 1991 cars.

I agree those are some awesome test rides I wonder how long C12's are test driven I'd volunteer to do that any day.

Luigi
:cool

 

[*89x2*]

Chris,

The post prior to mine had a lower Callaway Vehicle price so I presume that car did not have the Aerobody. My car does have the Aerobody and both cars are 1991 cars.

I agree those are some awesome test rides I wonder how long C12's are test driven I'd volunteer to do that any day.

Luigi
:cool

Luigi, As I sat here and thought about it a bit more, I do recall the past owner of the QB Coupe saying the Aerobody was added after initial construction of the car. ...makes sense then about the price jump between the two machines.

About that line for test pilot... It forms right behind ME

Enjoy

 

[HoldHard]

Luigi is correct. The aerobody on my car was put on at the dealership. This and the fact that mine is a coupe would account for part of the price difference. As far as the Koolof windshield, is that the one that was installed in the ZR1? Why I ask is that it's not listed on my sticker, but there is a ZR1 type windshield on the car.

You can just barely make out the square area at the bottom where GM indicated that the garage door opener would work best.

HoldHard

 

[TurboLuigi]

HoldHard,

That Steel Blue Metallic color is awesome!. I have seen various pictures of your car in the past and can't wait to see it @ Carlisle. You are coming right?

Luigi
:cool

 

[jonstr]

Luigi is correct. The aerobody on my car was put on at the dealership. This and the fact that mine is a coupe would account for part of the price difference. As far as the Koolof windshield, is that the one that was installed in the ZR1? Why I ask is that it's not listed on my sticker, but there is a ZR1 type windshield on the car.

You can just barely make out the square area at the bottom where GM indicated that the garage door opener would work best.

I don't know if the "Koolof" windshield is the same as what was used in the ZR1, but what you have in your car does look like what was used in the ZR1 that year. From '90-'92 ZR1s had the same type of horizontal rectangular area (about 3" tall by 5" wide or so) in the bottom of the windshield just to the left of center. In '93 through '95 they changed to a taller/narrower format for that area - about 4" tall by 3" tall.

One easy way to tell if you have the same windshield as the ZR1 is to look at the corners. If the corners are starting to turn a goldish color, then there is a good chance they are the same. The ZR1 windshields are infamous for delamination, and the corners is where it usually shows up first.

Jonstr

 

[*89x2*]

The LOF Koolof is similar if not exact same as in the ZR1's - Very fer B2K's got this windshield and you are right - it is very noticeable when one does - 90Callaway (Kevin) has one in his 90 Convertible...

 

[90Callaway]

The LOF Koolof is similar if not exact same as in the ZR1's - Very fer B2K's got this windshield and you are right - it is very noticeable when one does - 90Callaway (Kevin) has one in his 90 Convertible...

Yes, and they delaminate just like the ZR1... They are the same windshield. Different years have slight changes like the size of the cutout for a radar detector... ahem, I mean garage door opener.

 

[HoldHard]

HoldHard,

That Steel Blue Metallic color is awesome!. I have seen various pictures of your car in the past and can't wait to see it @ Carlisle. You are coming right?

Luigi
:cool

At this point, I am only missing three things, vacation time, a hotel reservation and a trailer.

If I can borrow a trailer from a buddy of mine, I'd seriously consider making the trip. The Quasar only has 18K miles on it (ok, ok I put a few miles on it this week) so I'd like to keep it out of the rain and excess mileage off the odometer.

Yes, I know they are ment to be driven. It's going to an event this weekend at a local road course style race track, Waterford Hills where all the Corvettes will participate in the parade laps on Saturday and Sunday. The good news is the track is only 26 miles from the house......

I'll keep you posted on the Carlisle developments. With the discount from Speed Lingerie, that would definately help sway the decision to go....

Originally posted by 90Callaway

Yes, and they delaminate just like the ZR1... They are the same windshield. Different years have slight changes like the size of the cutout for a radar detector... ahem, I mean garage door opener.

I've seen several ZR1's (one belongs to a club member) that have major discoloration in the corners. Mine just has a very slight gold-ish tinge near the top edge. If you look at the above picture, you can just make it out.

HoldHard

 

[*89x2*]

At this point, I am only missing three things, vacation time, a hotel reservation and a trailer.

If I can borrow a trailer from a buddy of mine, I'd seriously consider making the trip. HoldHard

Vacation time - that can be arranged, right??

Trailer you mentioned you can borrow

Hotel reservations - e mail me if youcan take care of the first two - I have a few rooms left near the area of the show at a discounted rate
I can only gurantee the room availability through the 22nd of July, then it is out of my hands (both vacancy & rate)

Let me know if I can help

 

[HoldHard]

I can only gurantee the room availability through the 22nd of July, then it is out of my hands (both vacancy & rate)

Let me know if I can help

Dropped you an e-mail from the work address. I'll be back in on Monday.

HoldHard