rear wheel bearings

[pax]

Does anyone here have any advice to give on changing rear bearings?
I had alot of pressure on the spindle and it won't budge ( 79 ).
Is this a job for a shop , should a guy buy an assembly ( if so what type ) etc. ?
I'm new to this vetteworld but am fairly confident in doing most mechanical jobs on vehicles which is why I bought this one !
My goal is to keep it as original as possible but if there is a fault in the design I'm willing to change it , which brings me to another topic...poly bushings.
Comments would be appreciated.
TIA
John

 

[SolidLifters]

See the post here: What could cause damage to rear spindle bearing threads? That pretty well says it all, but briefly: generally it takes special tools to disassemble/reassemble rear wheel bearings on 63 to 82 Corvettes. The assemblies have to be assembled with proper clearances and it's not just a simple matter of getting them apart, replacing the bearings and re assembly.

 

[pax]

Thanks for your reply SolidLifters. I read the other threads when I got back and it sounds like it isn't worth the effort for the do it yourselfers so the question is...do you get a mechanic to do the job or buy the assembly ? I think I'm a bit of a mechanic jinx, every time we bring a vehicle to a shop (dealerships included ) they seem to screw things up, similar to bari...then the fight is on ( I have a couple good stories).
I looked through the shop manual and this project didn't look that tough but hey ...I've been wrong before.
Thanks again

 

[SolidLifters]

My experience has been that there are two many mechanics around who don't have Corvette experience, but will tackle em anyway, usually with a press (which if not done right can bend the trailing arm) or worse yet a big hammer. I bought the tools to do my own over 25 years ago, so haven't had to make the choice. The stuff to do it with actually costs less now than it did back then buying the Kent Moore stuff from a GM dealer. It may be that it might not cost a whole lot more to get the tools and do it yourself, (about $500. US if I remember right) than to buy assemblies, and then you're all set for the next car you buy or helpin' a buddy.

 

[vigman]

If you do not have ALL the correct tools

Forget about it.

I've seen to many guys do their own "repairs" and 2 weeks later the rear bearing is grinding a pound of coffee.

The trick is in the free play set up.. and you need the proper tools to do that correctly.

The parts in the long run are cheap..if you have the tools. The tools will set you back about 1 trailing arm ( rebuilt ).

A trailing arm PROPERLY rebuilt.. with STOCK tires on em will go 25-45,000 miles
(depending on driving style, maint & road conditions.) And of course the QUALITY OF THE BEARINGS.

And every 10-15,000 you should lube the bearings.. there's a trick little adaptor from Mid America that replaces the rear wheel drive flange to allow a grease gun to pack the rear inside bearing.. and slop thru to the inner cavity.


Vig~

 

[DOCMOW]

had my first ones done by a shop
with my outher one i will change them
with advice from ncrs club member
as fpr bushing i went with oem style
for better ride an the ornigal ones
lasted 25 years poly gives better coening and ruffer ride suposto last
forever

 

[Ala75Vette]

Just had my rear bearings done at Corvettes Unlimited here in Huntsville. That is the one and only thing on my car I'd feel uncomfortable doing myself (including tearing the engine apart and putting it back together again). If it's not done properly, you're just setting yourself up for more heartache after having already probably spilt blood & busted knuckles. If you've got the right tools, and someone that can assist that's done it before, or if you're a mechanical guru (we do have a few on this forum), go for it, otherwise you'll probably be happier in the long run paying a Vette shop to do it. Just MHO.

As for poly vs rubber bushings, that's a topic that's been discussed a bit on this forum. Which to use? It depends, although most people will probably lean toward poly. I personally expect to replace my bushings all around with rubber, because ride "softness" is more important to me than stiff handling like you'd want if you were racing. Again, JMHO.

 

[ChuckG]

Don't do it!! I'm a pretty good shadetree mechanic, and I've been fooling with Corvettes for over 30 years. Don't waste your time messing with the rear wheel bearings. Be the general contractor. Remove the trailing arms and take them to a real Corvette shop. You can also ship them to either Van Steel in Florida or Bair's in Linesville, Ohio (near Erie, PA).

You'll be a much happier camper. As others have said, these require special tools and special knowledge. It isn't like changing the front wheel bearings. Save yourself the aggravation, and "farm" this job out to a real pro. Chuck

 

[pax]

Thank you all for your opinions. Nice to read posts that make sense.
I'm going to reconsider my options...pricing ( do-it-yourself vs hired help ) and locating a qualified mehanic. I would generally get these parts from a GM dealer thinking they would be top quality. Can anyone recommend a supplier of top quality parts?
A local corvette shop told me that when they work on rear bearings they do some re-machining and when they are done a guy can pull them apart easier afterwards. Does this sound reasonable??
To date I have checked the play in the spindle and could not "feel" any movement (which I thought was strange) then I set up a dial indicator and it agreed , virtually no movement...less than .001...removed spindle nut and flange (grease looked very old if it had ever been repacked) and mounted a press (the caliper mount, spindle support arm type) and proceeded to apply considerable pressure with no movement of the spindle. I have not tried a big hammer yet but was thinking I might have better results with a spindle knocker.
This is when I posted requesting comments.
On the topic of bushings, I have decided to go with the rubber replacements from GM. Already replaced some.
Thanks again,
john

 

[ChuckG]

"Slip fit" rear bearings, as suggested by your shop, are not in general a good idea. Chevrolet tried this in early 63, when they started building the then new "IRS". Found it didn't work. You'll spin the bearing and the race. Later on in 63, Chevrolet began press fitting the bearings, and continued to do this throughout C2 and C3 production.

If you don't have runout, clunking, noise, grinding, etc., why are you "messing" with them? Chuck

 

[SolidLifters]

I don't buy bearings from GM, it's just a waste of money. Any name brand bearing should be sufficient. I've always had good luck with Timken (spelling???) stuff, but there are other good brands also. Remember, GM doesn't make bearings, but rather buys em from a bearing manufacturer and it's unlikely that they're even buying from the same source as they did originally. They'll buy imported stuff in a flash, just like anybody else. If you don't believe it, look at the foreign content sticker on a new car.

As far as the machining for disassembly later, a couple of people around here have posted that they've had no problems with it, but it won't ever happen on anything I own. Replacement of bearings on a machined spindle will still require the same shimming process to be done right. There's also the possibility of the inner race spinning on the spindle, ruining both pieces. Someone pointed out that the front wheels use a similar process to the slip on fit that some people advocate doing in the rear, and this is of course true. BUT............the front spindles don't have to endure the torque loads that the rear do from being part of a driven assembly.

I think the best advice I have is to get an experienced mechanic with the right tools to do it, or buy the tools and do em yourself. Like somebody else pointed out, it's not that much more, if any to just buy the right stuff and be prepared from now on.

One other comment: I personally hate spindle knockers. I've just seen too many problems with em over the years. There've been some that weren't made deep enough to seat all the way to the shoulder. Also, because of difficulty in screwing em down on threads that are rusty or slightly buggered from previous work, many people don't take the time to seat em all the way down. In either case spindle damage occurs to the point of many times making the spindle un repairable. If you're gonna buy the stuff, buy the good stuff so you can do it right.

 

[vigman]

Here here

I agree 100% with Chuck & Solid.....

However.. I would NOT discourage trying to do it your self.. just be aware it will not be easy// TAKE YOUR TIME! DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME.


Vig!

 

[JohnZ]

If it really needs to be done, I'd recommend you pull them off and send them to Bair's in PA or Van Steel in Florida - they're pros at this job and do it every single day. This is NOT a job for a weekend mechanic, and doing it wrong can result in a catastrophic failure. Any "Corvette Shop" that goes after it with a big hammer and wants to machine down the spindle doesn't know what they're doing, and probably don't have the rest of the proper (and costly) tools to do the job right. I've seen spindles that took up to 15 tons of force in a press to remove the bearing.

 

[HammerDown]

Owners Doing Rear Wheel Bearings>

I say if you have any Mechanical ability do it yourself...it's not rocket sience by any means. I"ve done it and true there are some things to consider but there just wheel bearings and setting up the end play. For the 1'st timer, get the spindle knocker, make sure it bottoms out as not to damage the threads, after the spindles are out, take it with NEW bearings and have the outer bearngs removed and shaft turned down so the new inner and outer bearings will be a hand press on the spindle...a very good friend of mine ownes a very well known Corvette shop here in the S.E Philly area and has been doing this for longer than I've owned my 81 Vette...TRUE the Bearings cant be a sloppy fit on the Spindles...but with a slight hand press the bearings will be fine without any fear of inner bearing race spinning.
After thats done and NEW races are pressed in, it makes life alot easer when it's time to set up the bearings for end play. And also its alot easer when it's time to service the bearings with fresh grease.
Here's a little trick another friend showed me (a long time ago)on how to set up the end play if you don't have a dial indicator (back then I did'nt but now I do)...When everythings clean and dry, and the new races are in...just take a standard piece of Lead Solder, wrap it around the spindle as the "shim" would be...then assemble the spindle in the trailing arm...put the nut on and tighten it by hand a fair ammount. Remove the the spindle bearing and ...carefully remove and measure the now compressed Solder...that is Zero end play for that spindle...now just add to that measurement the required enplay and insert the required steel shim...the guessing game is done. NOW one thing I do as well as my friend's Corvette Shop does is to make the final end play "on new bearings" a little smaller...so as the end play wont be to slopy after run in time.
And for those skeptics...I've check my above method years later when servicing the wheel bearings for routen maintenance...and with a dial indicator everything was right in spec. and the bearings looked great!
So if you have the time and patients...I say do it yourself...or pay someone else to do it for you.
Wanted to add one thing...when removing the Spindle Nut with the Solder Ring on the shaft, support the lugg side of the Spindle so as NOT to distort the Lead Ring...and if you by chance mess up...no biggie, just cut another piece of Solder and do it again...and remember the Inner bearings will NOW remove from the Spindles by just tapping the shaft with your hand...easy huh!

 

[Paul Borowski]

Bair's in Linesville,Pa did three out of four of mine. I removed/seperated the "bearing support" from the trailing arms and took them to Bair's myself(I live 105mi away). It is $150 per side providing your bearing carrier and spindle is'nt damaged in anyway or the price quickly goes up. You get your bearing support assembly back from them looking like an NOS assembly-the work that Bair's does is impeccable!!! I recommend them highly for any type Corvette work/repair. These guys are among the best in the business to deal with too. They'll take everything of yours apart right in front of you(if you go there like me!) and tell you straight up whats going on, what you need, what's best for your situation, etc. The guys there are GREAT!!!

 

[SolidLifters]

I don't want to start an argument or cause any hard feelings, but strongly disagree with the advice above on the do it yourself and slip fit proceedure. I believe there's more risk than reward. I've seen ignored bearings ruin the spindles on press fit units and think the possibility is multiplied with the other method. I would guess I've probably done at least a hundred using the conventional method with the proper tools and have never had a problem with any done this way. At the risk of repeating, the rear wheel bearings endure loads that are never seen in front wheel bearings.

 

[HammerDown]

Rear Bearings>

I absolutely respect the above comment/reply...but with the experience of a well known Corvette Specialist in my area that most likely have done HUNDREDS of these Corvetts for over 35 years...I'd sure have to say they know what there also talking about.
And as for me well, I have over 112 thousand miles on my 81 Vette and still use the OE Spindles...and every time I service the rear bearings they come apart very easy...without and hard banging...and the bearings and Spindles look just fine.
I do belive theres more than just one way to do a job...old school/new school...either way if done correctly will yeald positive results...or if done in a rush or with hast will be incorect...my way is just alot easer.

 

[pax]

Hi guys
Been a crazy couple of days but I am off today so am going to do more research on this locally with the help of all your comments.
I live on the west coast of Canada so dealing with someone from AL, PA, or Florida may not be a practical option however if anyone has a website or phone # for these or other companies it would be appreciated.
Chuck, I am messing with them because this is a new car to me and I don't know if they have ever been greased. Call it peace of mind. From what I can see this car is fairly original ( although I'm no expert ) and some of the bushings should have been replaced long ago. If they didn't do the cheap and easy things, I have little faith they did the tough ones.
Solid, good call on GM bearings and a good question to pose to them. Should I decide to buy all the tools is there a supplier you or anyone could recommend?
vig, I would like to do this myself so that in the future I will be able to properly grease the bearings at regular intervals, 20,000 miles or so. My understanding is that the grease adapter does not sufficiently grease the outer bearings.
Hammer, it does sound easy although most here don't seem to agree. I do like your little solder trick...this could come in handy.
Thanks again everyone for your comments. This is great!

 

[JohnZ]

Assuming a rear bearing job is done correctly, with proper bearings, seals, and end play, they don't require any periodic maintenance; they should go 60,000-80,000 miles with no problem on a street-driven car.

 

[pax]

Just to update...the dealer of course would not recommend anything but the GM specs which I expected and had no strong comments on machining.
vette shop #1 as I mentioned does machining and seem to be good people to talk to but never want to give you too much info (just buying parts isn't enough???) and I have dealt with them before.
vette shop #2 wasn't too interested in taking the time to talk to me...bad vibes so bottom of the list they go.
vette shop #3 was very refreshing and down to earth talking about vettes he owns and has owned including some racers with some nice photos...oh, and we talked about rear wheel bearings also. Before I even got the word machining out of my mouth he was shaking his head saying "not here" and proceeded to show me his shop and how they did bearings with some examples of the good, the bad and the ugly. Done properly he stated they should go 50-60,000 miles without a problem and has seen them go much further which is similar to what JohnZ posted earlier. As I was leaving I asked what make of bearings they used and he replied " Timken ".
What can I say...good enough for solid...good enough for me.
I have decided not to buy the tools at this time and to go with vette shop #3...wish us luck!
Thanks again for all your comments.
John