roller rockers for centerbolt valve covers?

[rrubel]

Yet again, I'm confused.

Continuing the trend of "Nothing on this engine is ever easy," I discovered that my roller rocker arms are self-aligning (they're the PN that Lingenfelter recommended) but my heads are set up with guideplates and the valve stems WILL NOT WORK with self-aligning rockers (not enough stem above the retainer so the rocker won't roll). So I need new rockers. Again. However, suddenly I am seeing different ones (in the Summit catalog) for SOME BRANDS that say "narrow body, for centerbolt valve covers." Is there really a clearance issue? What do people here use? I'm looking at a Comp Cams that's equivalent to their Race Gold, but isn't gold anodized - and is not self-aligning. However, in one catalog it says for all SBCs. In the Summit catalog, it's listed only for perimeter bolt valve covers, and there's another part ($75 more) for centerbolts.

Help! I don't want to order the wrong parts AGAIN.
[RICHR]

 

[Ken]

I have nothing to offer you here Rich, except sympathy; I know what you're going through. They tell me it'll all be worth it, but when it'll all come together I don't know just yet. :L

 

[86er]

The best thing would be to call them and give your year and specs. You don't want it all apart to find out you have the wrong parts. We've all been there before!!!

 

[rrubel]

Heh. 86er, that's my entire problem. Call up someplace and say "I've got an 86 Corvette with a 91 block, Pro Topline heads, blah-blah springs, etc" and they''ll hang up on you . Or try to sell you the most expensive item, whether or not you need it.
[RICHR]

 

[jeffyc]

have you tryed calling up comp cams?
if not give them a call

 

[l98vette1986]

Im not having any trouble w/ rollers, im using the bulky pro-forms.

 

[rrubel]

Do you have centerbolt valve covers? I thought the Malcolm Konner cars were all early 86's, still with cast iron heads.
[RICHR]

 

[l98vette1986]

Do you have centerbolt valve covers? I thought the Malcolm Konner cars were all early 86's, still with cast iron heads.
[RICHR]

They were early Iron headded cars.. mine had them, but i had a set of the Edelbrock centerbolt heads, and thought it would be a good upgrade along w/ the mini ram, and a lot of other bolt ons.

 

[Moonunit 451]

Yet again, I'm confused.

Continuing the trend of "Nothing on this engine is ever easy," I discovered that my roller rocker arms are self-aligning (they're the PN that Lingenfelter recommended) but my heads are set up with guideplates and the valve stems WILL NOT WORK with self-aligning rockers (not enough stem above the retainer so the rocker won't roll). So I need new rockers. Again. However, suddenly I am seeing different ones (in the Summit catalog) for SOME BRANDS that say "narrow body, for centerbolt valve covers." Is there really a clearance issue? What do people here use? I'm looking at a Comp Cams that's equivalent to their Race Gold, but isn't gold anodized - and is not self-aligning. However, in one catalog it says for all SBCs. In the Summit catalog, it's listed only for perimeter bolt valve covers, and there's another part ($75 more) for centerbolts.

Help! I don't want to order the wrong parts AGAIN.
[RICHR]

I'm not sure if I exactly understand the question here, but, (and sorry I haven't followed your project), but you can get the Promag, non-self aligning and no prob, accept you may have to clearance the valve covers. Lots of guys have to do it. It's not a big deal. Post here or e-mail me. You probly (?)can't use the stock valve covers. Not sure. Oh yea, don't F up like I did. Get the 7/16 stud instead of the 3/8 :eyerole

 

[rrubel]

See, part of my confusion is that I can't see WHY you'd need narrower arms for centerbolt covers. It doesn't look like the bolts even come close to the arms anyway. But *somebody* thinks you do, since they're being offered for sale (and I swear, I did not see them last year when I was looking).

By 'clearancing' the covers, you mean grinding the drip tabs, right? The covers I've got don't have them so that's not an issue. And it's too late for 7/16ths... the heads are assembled. Also, I was told that unless I was seeing 6500+ RPMs then 3/8''s is just fine. I don't plan on going much over 6k - the engine isn't being built for high-RPM power.

Moonunit, you're the guy who had the stud disintegrate, right? How did that turn out?

L98vette1986, you had no probs with those centerbolts and the big arms? Interesting... Yet again I wonder why there are two models. If you call Comp Cams, they just say their party line - one for center, one for perimeter.

[RICHR]

 

[Moonunit 451]

See, part of my confusion is that I can't see WHY you'd need narrower arms for centerbolt covers. It doesn't look like the bolts even come close to the arms anyway. But *somebody* thinks you do, since they're being offered for sale (and I swear, I did not see them last year when I was looking).

I've never heard anything like that.

L98vette1986, you had no probs with those centerbolts and the big arms? Interesting... Yet again I wonder why there are two models. If you call Comp Cams, they just say their party line - one for center, one for perimeter.

Or that, Comp Cams never suggested anything like that to me, but I can tell you one thing for sure. If you go with Comp Cams get the right thing the first time out. They won't do you any favors. And there is no reason why they should, but to have to pay about $180 to rebuild rockers with only a thousand or so miles on them seemed way outa control to me. I wanted to upgrade to the 7/16" and there was no mercy for my mistake.

By 'clearancing' the covers, you mean grinding the drip tabs, right? The covers I've got don't have them so that's not an issue. And it's too late for 7/16ths... the heads are assembled. Also, I was told that unless I was seeing 6500+ RPMs then 3/8''s is just fine. I don't plan on going much over 6k - the engine isn't being built for high-RPM power.

Yes the drip tabs and I had to do some additional work as well. Yes the 3/8's are probably OK, but it is zero cost insuranse to go big! Unfortunately I didn't realize this until I broke my wimpy 3/8 stud.

Moonunit, you're the guy who had the stud disintegrate, right? How did that turn out?

Ya, that was me, which is why I have some opinions on this issue. I did a few stupid things just in order to learn the hard way as usual The motor came with the BIG ole crane golds on it, they were on 3/8" studs and the guy who I bought the motor from had futzed around grinding on them for some reason :confused I can't recall what he said. At any rate I decided to put the Pro Mags on, (I went with the nonself aligning cause the guide plates were on there already) and I failed to replace the studs :eyerole

They were apparently damaged and probly cheapo to begin with, I'm guessing cause they had the selfaligning RR's on there with the guide plates and one busted off while I was cruising (thankfully) on the freeway.

Moral of the story, if I'd of replaced the studs when I put the new RR's in, for all of $60 that I ended up spending anyway I could have put the big studs on and never had to worry about it again!

Rich, I know you said the heads are all set up, but all we're talking about is getting the larger studs and RR's since you still don't have them yet and having a stronger setup for the same price...you're choice

ARP ONLY!

 

[Mad-Mic]

i agree with Colin,

all they do is screw in and screw out. if you are getting new rockers anyway would be nice to do it since you may not go over 6k in rpm but still have harder springs with a bigger cam putting more stress on the 3/8" studs.

 

[rrubel]

I assume I'd need new guideplates, too... I am *SO* over budget on this . <sigh> let me do some pricing...

I did get the name of a place that has probably any plug/fitting you could possibly want for TPI and LT1 cars - called "Street and Performance." They had my 9th injector blockoff plug for $15 instead of Accel's INSANE $75. Plus they've got the vacuum ports I need.

Moonunit, those arms were probably ground to avoid hitting the spring retainers. That's one problem I'm currently facing, aside from the roller not even contacting the valve stem...

Oh, for the wide/narrow arms, look in the latest Summit catalog on page 150. They've got Crane and Summit brand both (think they're the same) listed as wide for normal valve covers and narrow for centerbolt. But get this! You can't get the narrows for a 7/16" stud!

[RICHR]

 

[Ken]

I assume I'd need new guideplates, too... I am *SO* over budget on this . <sigh>

Sorry Rich, couldn't help myself - been there, done that, and I'm still spending money (that I don't have). :L

 

[Moonunit 451]

I assume I'd need new guideplates, too... I am *SO* over budget on this . <sigh> let me do some pricing...

I did get the name of a place that has probably any plug/fitting you could possibly want for TPI and LT1 cars - called "Street and Performance." They had my 9th injector blockoff plug for $15 instead of Accel's INSANE $75. Plus they've got the vacuum ports I need.

Moonunit, those arms were probably ground to avoid hitting the spring retainers. That's one problem I'm currently facing, aside from the roller not even contacting the valve stem...

Oh, for the wide/narrow arms, look in the latest Summit catalog on page 150. They've got Crane and Summit brand both (think they're the same) listed as wide for normal valve covers and narrow for centerbolt. But get this! You can't get the narrows for a 7/16" stud!

[RICHR]

Rich there shouldn't be any need to change the guide plates. Or get rid of them all together and get selfaligning RR's.

Man I KNOW what you mean about over budget. Don't make the mistake I did of trying to save pennies at the end. You'll go through less grief in the long run.

I think I was the one that posted that link to Street and Performance for ya. I hope you spoke with them. I got the wrong part first time around, but they sent me the right one at no charge when I called them about it. Oh yea the Cranes and Summit RR's are huge, spent the extra bucks and go with the Promags dood Hang in there, thinngs will get better.

 

[rrubel]

I've got self-aligning arms right now. They won't reach the top of the valves, which is what prompted this post in the first place! The porting shop told me that the heads would have been set up totally differently to not use guideplates (I'm thinking the valves would have been installed with more above the retainer, for example). So I'm sticking with them. But as I thought about what you said, I realized that the bigger studs only are bigger at the TOP, ABOVE the guideplates - you don't have to tap the heads, do you? The threads are the same size, right?

Let me find a link to those Pro-mags. I was looking at a set of Harland Sharps, which (in the picture, at least) look like they're cut way back towards the pivot. They're about $200 for a set of 1.6's in either ratio. Hm. Looks like ARP studs are only $28 a set, unless I need the longer ones, which are (ouch) $75...

Moonunit, I forgot you did exactly what I am with the SuperRam. Can I email you privately and ask some questions and get some pictures? I've got some reassembly issues that I've been pondering.

Ken, laugh all you want. I think I said at the beginning of this that I didn't think it'd be too difficult or that there'd be too many things I had to change because I DID MY RESEARCH! Oh, brother... Research, smesearch.

Here - I'll try and attach a link to a pic of the engine as it sits now.

Engine

Thanks.
[RICHR]

 

[Ken]

That's what I mean Rich; no matter how well you think you have it mapped out, it is always subject to change - change usually not dictated by you, the builder. Frustrating to say the least.

 

[Mad-Mic]

hey looks good Rich! i almost stopped by sat to check out the progress but didn't want to stop by around noon unexpectedly.

get the kinks worked out and you'll be driving in no time!

 

[Moonunit 451]

That's correct

Let me find a link to those Pro-mags. I was looking at a set of Harland Sharps, which (in the picture, at least) look like they're cut way back towards the pivot. They're about $200 for a set of 1.6's in either ratio. Hm. Looks like ARP studs are only $28 a set, unless I need the longer ones, which are (ouch) $75...

$28 sound cheap, but I had to buy mine on the spot instead of mailorder, cost me around $50 for the 3/8". Believe me I'd have paid twice that at the time with my car stranded 40 mi. from home in a parking lot

Moonunit, I forgot you did exactly what I am with the SuperRam. Can I email you privately and ask some questions and get some pictures? I've got some reassembly issues that I've been pondering.

Sure Rich Moonunit@Forus.com If I can help I will. You may recall that I got a lot of help locally from Corvette0096. We pulled the MR and put the SR on in one afternoon[/B, and had it running! He has been increadibly helpful to me

Here - I'll try and attach a link to a pic of the engine as it sits now.

Engine

Thanks.
[RICHR]

That looks nice Rich.....but get you're wallet out again That timong pointer HAS GOT TO GO! Let me see if I can find the link with the right part from Summit. It is way to far away from your timing marks. Change it now, it'll be much easeir than after you have the motor in the car

 

[rrubel]

Yeah, you're right about the pointer. Hey... it was $3 at Auto Zone... Now I just have to figure out how to get the HB back on - doesn't slide far enough for my bolt/washer to fit. A link to the Summit one would be nice; I think, though, I'm going to get one from Competition Products if I get the rocker arms from them. I'll be emailing you soon...

You did the SR in ONE DAY??? It took me longer than that to work up the nerve to pull the stock manifold !
[RICHR]