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Searching for Horses and Torque

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platato

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My Vette is completely stock. I would like to increase both horsepower an torque without altering the way the car looks (we show the car). I am willing to modify the exhaust but otherwise I want the car to appear stock. Has anyone gone down this road? Please post your modifications and dyno results if you have them.

I am really interested in hearing about the following and whatever else you have to say

Carburetor modification
Transmission shift kits
Torque converters
Balance & blueprint
Aftermarket ECM chips & thermostats
Head machining
Cams, valves & lifters
Increasing compression ratio
K&N Filters
Rear end gearing

Please check my "1981 Documentation" post on this thread. I am hoping this is valuable to some of you. I haven't gotten any feedback yet. If you can add to the list and or provide a picture, it would be greatly appreciated.

STW! Platato:hb
 
Just for starters I would consider an Edelbrock performer intake,Mid-America dual exhaust(if you are emissions exempt)and a camshaft change perhaps. Forget the promchip-complete waste of money on an '81. I like you want to maintain a 'stock' appearance. I have the dual exhaust setup and the performer intake and the horsepower difference with just these 2 changes was impressive. I am going to install a 330hp GM crate motor down the road so I am not planning any more engine mods on my car at this time. The car runs very,very well as is.
Here is a picture after my completed winter project with the new intake manifold installed. I wanted to keep the original air cleaner intact. I have a complete post on this site on the complete installation from start to finish.
http://corvetteactioncenter.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=197542



Dave
 
Platato..... I put a set of Blackjack ceramic coated headers with 3" pipes through a 2-stage free flow cat, K&N set up and increased the HP to 239 at the rear wheels and 336 lb/ft of torque on a stock L81 engine with almost 200K miles on it. This was baselined on an in-ground dyno last summer.

Good luck.............. Nut
 
Words of wisdom from the great philosopher of Charleston, Homomer:

"Power is developed through air flow. Air flow is limited by the heads, camshaft profile, and supporting systems. Changing the supporting systems without addressing the base problem is asking for ketchup but not ordering the fries. Get me a beer..."

The exhaust and intake might be good steps, but even the factory intake and exhausts are not as bad as some examples on other stock engines. The real limiting factor is the weak compression and cam proifile.

Horsepower is a function of torque at RPM, so the quest for more HP means increasing the RPM. That can rarely be done with a factory valve train, especially the springs. Another important consideration is the RPM range of operation. Making gobs of power at 6,500 RPM is great, so long as the car will ever see 6,500 RPM. Make sure the gearing and shifting are appropriate to the engine build. If you have the typical 2.73 gearing and plan to keep it, a higher stall PRM torque converter and cam profile and heads that support good intake velocity instead of peak flow will make more from the combo than a high RPM build. If you're planning on 3.43 or higher gearing, the scheme would change.

As for "looking stock", even a 406 SBC looks "stock" with the right manifolds and covers. So does a 283. You can build a small block to 450+ CID with the right stroke and the newer FelPro 4.25" head gaskets (but I wouldn't), and it would still "look stock" with cast rocker covers and air cleaner. I haven't met anyone yet who can measure bore/stroke woth the heads and oil pan installed. A die grinder takes care of the casting numbers very easily...
 
OK! Let me ask this!

It has always been my understanding that the heads are where power is either made or lost and the overall object is to have the whole system suck & blow as efficiently as possible. I do not have a Top End or Low End performance preference. I am looking for the perfect balance between the two. That said, and taking into consideration my lack of performance knowledge, this is what I have been wondering

Should I have the heads ported, polished and CC'd
Bigger valves???? (if so, what sizes)
Deck the block (to inprove compression?)
swap valve train and cam (but to what I don't know)
Swap torque converter to 3500 stall
Add transmission shift kit (really need input here)
K&N filter in stock asembly
I prefer stock intake & exhaust manifods (will this blow the whole project?)
Will install true dual pipes (no Cat)
Would a crossover pipe improve exhaust flow?
How much would balancing the crank, pistons etc. effect HP
what can be done to the carb? re-jet? re-spring?
What can be done to the distributer? re-curve?
Rear end gearing (best compromise between quick & fast)
What will the computer think of these changes?
what else can I do & what result can be expected?

Thank you for your previous replies!

STW! Platato


:hb
 
Greek,

From what I can tell. the stock intake is not a bad design so long as the ports are matched well to the heads. The heads I pulled off ('624s) were so badly core-shifted that the ports were nowhere near optimal. that's not at all unusual in a factory setup. The runner sizes of the stock intake are adequate, so long as the match is decnet and the heads can take the flow.

The stock exhausts do seem to have smallish diameter tubes (at about 1½") and somewhat sharp bends at the flange, but are not so bad that you should automatically trash them. They are probably approproiately sized for a lower-medium RPM, high-torque (and port velocity) engine installation. Their good points are the short lengths and decent collector transitions. The real disadvantage of the stock system is probably the 'Y' pipe and small diameter exhaust tubes to the rear.

As for a crossover pipe in the exhausts (sometimes called an 'H' pipe or balance pipe), the effectiveness of them is very good on separate, true dual exhausts on most later SBC engines. Most of these engines have no exhaust crossover in the intake and heads. The problem is that the adjacent firing of cylinders in the same bank creates higher pressure in the exhaust system, preventing the complete scavenging of exhaust gasses from subsequently firing cylinders. In short, when #8 fires, it creates pressure in the right side exhaust tube. This makes the scavenging of the #4 cylinder more difficult when it fires 90° later. The same phenomenon occurs when #5 fires in the left bank, and #7 tries to dump all its exhaust gas 90° later. The advantage that older intakes and heads have is that both the #4 and #5 cylinder exhaust ports are ported to the opposite head through the intake, as well as the exhaust manifold. This helps relieve the pressure to the opposite side exhaust tubes when these same-side firings occur. While the volume is not massive, it helps. A balance pipe on such an application may help, but not to the same extent as in newer SBCs without the crossovers, like LT1 engines.

Personally, I wouldn't deck a case unless it was warped, and then only enough to flatten it. If you're going to deck it, you'd have to remove the pistons. If that were the case, the best thing to do would be to trash the factory dished pistons and install something with a flat top or dome to achieve your desired static compression and restore some quench area to the chambers.

Balancing the rotating assembly usually won't produce any more power, but will allow you to produce power with more reliability and longevity. It can be the difference between blowing a rod through a wall at 6,300 RPM or still producing power at that point. At teh very least, performa a static balanace of all parts of the rotating assembly. Stock pistons and rods vary so much in mass that it's truly disappointing.

The stock carb (Rochester E4ME) is not a bad design. The primaries are very easy to trim and tune for correct low and part throttle power and economy, and the secondary AV windup spring, metering rods, and hanger can be adjusted or replaced to tune for WOT power to match your needs. Unless you plan on running at 7,800 RPM with VEs of higher than 90%, or are bolting it to a 450+ CID engine, you'll never need more flow than you can get through the Q-Jet. The air flow math is really clear on that one, despite what Edelbrock and Holley try to sell you.

If you are using the stock distributor and ECM/EST systemn, there isn't much that can be done with the spark "curve" (actually, a programmed table). You can alter the base timing setting to take better advantage of the improvements, but short of reprogramming, there isn't much adjustment on that system. A non-CC distributor would give you more control over that, but has its own set of problems. I'm currently looking for a ECM PROM mask file to start editing and burning PROMs for these ancient CCC systems, but their application was so limited that there just isn't much out there. It's a spare-tiem project, anyway.

The same holds true for the TCC lockup points and "tolerance" of the ECM for modifications. If/when I get anything definitive and working corectly, I'll surely post it here.

Gearing and torque converter selection are a matter of choice. For good ¼-mile times, 3.43 or numerically higher ratios are best. For high MPH and MPG, lower numbers are better. NASCAR routinely runs 2.33 or lower gears, and makes plenty out of the setup in their desired application.
 
Wow! Great Information

From what information you have provided it sounds like the best setup for me (given my desire to appear as close to stock as possible) would be the following

01. Port, polish & CC the heads. Match them to intake for
maximum flow
02. Install true dual exhaust with H-pipe using stock exhaust
manifolds
03. Retain rear end gearing
04. Install transmission shift kit
05. Slightly increase cam size (I need specs here)
06. Tune carb
07. K&N air filter
08. Replace valve springs
09. Install double roller timing chain
10. Increase timing slightly for top end runs
11. Retard timing slightly for low end runs

.......and now a few more questions

01. If I use an earlier model transmission cross member can I run
the straighter aftermarket exhaust piping used on earlier
models. 80-82 systems have several curves. Any problems
with ground clearance If I do this?
02. Will the exahust modification effect the computer & what
modifications to the exhaust need to be made due to smog
etc. ( I am leaving all smog in place except cat)
02. Does the L-81 utilize roller rockers and if not should I switch
to them
03. Does the L-81 utilize nylon timing gears
04. Would you recommend bigger valves
05. What is your best guess regarding rear wheel horsepower
and torque for #'s 1-11 above.
06. This is a former Calif car. Anything I should know about this
07. Is there anything else I am missing
08. Could you prepare a list of improvements to be made with an
explanation of what to expect from each improvement

Thanks again Vader! You and Burglar have been very helpful to me on this site.

STW! Platato

:Steer
 
Platato,
Here's what I've done so far with my L81 a bit at a time (no access to a dyno so it's all seat of the pants stuff):

Davies high O/P coil, performance ignition module & Moroso leads: started & ran noticeably better, but it probably had clapped out old leads on, so I couldn't say if they are worth fitting in place of a good stock system.

Crane CompuCam 2040, .440/.454 210/216 @ 0.50 lift & matching valve springs: BIG improvement in mid range power, but seemed to lose a bit at the bottom end (or maybe it just felt that way due to the extra power higher up?). A definate must do, but there are more radical cams that can be fitted eg, 2050. Something I'm careful about is to keep good fuel economy, so I've gone for a very mild build.

180 stat: runs cooler, didn't notice any power improvement (but I didn't expect to).

Performer intake: engine felt "cleaner/crisper" in pick up.

Lifter valley oil baffle plate: Improvements due to a cooler intake charge? Beats me, but it will hold the lifters in their bores if it ever drops a pushrod etc. A peace of mind thing really.

MAD dual exhausts with Monza "mufflers": very dramatic improvement throughout entire power range. The exhaust system is probably the cheapest power increase you can do. Economy also improved.

Hypertech thermothingy chip: contrary to what I've heard about these chips (Hypercrap, etc), I was impressed. Nothing dramatic, but low end power was increased (see cam above).

K&N filter: no noticed increase in power but I always use K&N's on my vehicles for ease of maintanance.

No emmisions systems: done (badly) by previous owner (Bubba).

Fitted bushes in carb to repair worn primary shaft bores: well worth doing if the carb is worn - acts like a new carb now.

Cloyes true double roller timing set: for peace of mind.

Comp Cams 1.52 roller tipped rockers: fitted same time as cam so don't know about power increase, but I like the fact that the rollers roll over the valve stem thus imparting less sideways force. And the ratios are more accurate than the stock rockers.

Set initial timing to 11*BTDC (from the 6*BTDC stock): noticed a small improvement, especially low down. Exhaust note sounds more aggresive & the idle is more regular :)

Dynomax Ceramic coated headers with 1 5/8" primaries into 3" collectors. O2 sensor in the reducers. Also made true dual 2 1/2" exhaust system (I've just junked the stock x-member & fitted a custom one): Power improvements? Very hard to say as I also fitted a TH200-4r transmission which has lower gear ratios. Making the exhausts was a real pain but is worth it. With no x-member to worry about the limiting factor is the drivers floor pan. I've got 4" of ground clearance at this point & it does ground out on speed humps & very rough roads :( I also fitted an "H" pipe in the system (just behind the x-member). Supposedly this will give up to 8HP increase in power (yeah, right!), but I did it to quieten the exhaust down - with Monzas the noise was extreme at WOT & the "H" has mellowed it down a lot (still loud though). It's also stopped the popping & banging that occured on shut down (the MAD system didn't have any air leaks, it seems to be a problem with unbalanced exhaust systems).
Oh yes, if you fit Headers then fit a heat shield to the starter (or get a mini one). I cooked mine which isn't funny with an auto!

None of the above caused the computer any problems. The cam opens and closes the valves very quickly which helps to keep a high manifold vacuum at idle, which is what the computer needs to work correctly. If a cam causes a low vacuum at idle then the confuser thinks that you are giving it a bit of throttle & richens the mixture. This will cause emission problems & a bog when you do use some throttle (so I've been told). Choose the cam carefully if you aim to keep the computer.

In theory an earlier X-member will allow you to run true duals, but something to check is if the lower drivers floor pan (due to the electric seat) will prevent the pipe going through the hole in the x-member. You could cut a section out of the stock x-member & weld a plate over the cutout to give room for a pipe.

No mods were required to the computer due to the exhaust system change as the primaries are controlled by the computer, based on the O2 reading ie. it's self adjusting. The secondaries work in the same way as non computer controlled Q-jets so could argueably need slight richening. I didn't find that I needed to with the MAD system & the secondaries mixture still seems OK with Headers on (further testing is required :D ).

The L81 doesn't have roller rockers as std. I wouldn't bother with the expense of full roller rockers, but roller tipped are worth looking at.

HP & torque- haven't a clue! More than stock though.

Everything I've read says that the L81 was the same in California as everywhere else (or was only auto offered in California?).

What I'm missing is some decent Heads. Most of the mods I've done require decent heads to give the full benefit. The cam also requires the CR to be raised from the paltry 8.2:1 (or whatever it is) to 9:1 or a bit higher. Driving the Vette I can feel that something is holding it back a bit. The power is there, but it's just locked away (strangled). It's hard to describe, but it feels like every emission controlled engine from that era that I've played with. I'm convinced that a set of decent flowing heads with smaller chambers will really wake the engine up :) At the moment it's far better than when I got it, but the quest for more horses is addictive - be careful.
Hope some of this helps,
Paul
 

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