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LT4 Stock Lt4 H.p. Variations

  • Thread starter Thread starter JAMES BREWER
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1996 LT4 Topic
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JAMES BREWER

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I READ THE LT4 REVIEW BY STAN ADELMAN ON THIS SITE WHERE HE HAS FOUND THAT THE FACTORY HORSEPOWER RANGES ANYWHERE FROM 330-390, BUT DOESN'T GIVE AN EXPLANATION (TECH CENTER - 1996 CORVETTE). DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT THIS IS ATTRIBUTED TO, OR WHAT TO LOOK FOR TO DETERMINE STOCK H.P. WITHOUT THE USE OF A DYNO (MONTH PRODUCED, ROLL OF THE DICE, VIN NUMBER)? SIXTY HORSES IS A BIG SWEEP RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX!!
 
An average LT4 tends to be in the 350 HP range.... I haven't seen one that came in at 330 (the factory spec HP). I think there may be a few out there at that range, but you can count on 350 HP. You may be a lucky one with 375-390 HP stock, but the only way to really tell is a dyno run.
 
Didn't GM purposely under rate the LT4 as to not show up the LS1 that would come out less than a year later?
 
Only partially............actually it was to keep the $30K insult to the 95 ZR-1 owners to a minimum. I have this from an un-named source at the General's offices..........
 
My stock LT4 just dyno'd 297 RWHP....I'm told that would be around 345 at the flywheel.

I have a slightly slipping clutch so I'm not sure if my numbers would have been a little better or not.

I am putting in a new clutch..but I'm also adding Corsa cat-back exhaust and 52MM TB...So I guess I'll never know if the clutch cost me a few HP or not.... =\

I also heard that GM down rated them because of the LS1 coming out for '97 was rated at 345HP...but the ZR-1 explnation makes sense to me too..
 
Confused about horse power rating fellaz! I thought all cars know a days were measured at the rear wheels not the fly wheel? I remember looking at my dad's old Chiltons manual and it had an astric for all 74 and up cars stating that horsepower ratings were being measured at the rear wheels to display net horsepower and not gross horse power. How does GM measure horse power and is it some sort of estimation like the processor rating on a Mac Computer where the rating is a measurement for what it can actually do rather than maximal potential. So how much should we expect? Especially with exhaust upgrades, the Claw SLP? Scott
 
Fugitive said:
Confused about horse power rating fellaz! I thought all cars know a days were measured at the rear wheels not the fly wheel? I remember looking at my dad's old Chiltons manual and it had an astric for all 74 and up cars stating that horsepower ratings were being measured at the rear wheels to display net horsepower and not gross horse power. How does GM measure horse power and is it some sort of estimation like the processor rating on a Mac Computer where the rating is a measurement for what it can actually do rather than maximal potential. So how much should we expect? Especially with exhaust upgrades, the Claw SLP? Scott

It's done by the flywheel. Before, I think it was without any accessories and that's why they had bigger HP numbers. I think the cutoff was somwhere around 1974 or so.
 
Edmond said:
It's done by the flywheel. Before, I think it was without any accessories and that's why they had bigger HP numbers. I think the cutoff was somwhere around 1974 or so.
the bhp (brake horse power) ended

Horsepower is horsepower, isn't it?

What is horsepower?

Horsepower is a unit of measure for "work performed" by any mechanical or bio-mechanical device. In automobile engineering several types of horsepower are accepted, but are carefully defined and differentiated. Basic horsepower involves a formula with an important constant - it has been determined that a live, healthy, happy horse can perform at 33,000 foot-pounds of work in one minute.

Horsepower is important to car owners. The more horsepower your engine has, the faster it will go. Muscle car owners love to brag about horsepower. A 1969 Ford Torino Cobra comes equipped with a 360 hp engine. A 1974 Pontiac Catalina comes with a wimpy 155 hp engine. Which car would you rather own? Although the Cobra most definitely has a more powerful engine than the Catalina, the two horsepower ratings are not representing power the same way.

The good old days

Up until 1971, engines were listed with what is called brake horsepower (Bhp) Brake horsepower is a calculation where the engine horsepower is measured at the point of output, with no load from a chassis or any accessories and with fuel and ignition operations under ideal conditions. Brake horsepower is often called gross horsepower today. This figure was often used for advertising purposes up to 1971.

An accessory is anything attached to the engine, by any means, which is not required for basic engine operation. By this definition, this would include a power steering pump, smog pump, air conditioning compressor and an alternator.

Ideal conditions, often called laboratory conditions, are standardized settings for use during horsepower measurement. During the 1960s they were a barometric pressure of 29.92 Hg and a temperature of 60 degrees F.

Today

Net horsepower, also called road horsepower, (Rhp) is a calculation where horsepower is measured after the load from a chassis and accessories. Essentially, this is the power available at the drive wheel or wheels of a vehicle. Nowadays called SAE net horsepower, it is the only method used for advertising purposes since 1972.

Why the switch?

The SAE or Society of Automotive Engineers is a group responsible for setting various standards within the automobile manufacturing industry. Founded in 1905, the SAE publishes many new, revised, and reaffirmed standards each year in three categories: Ground Vehicle Standards, Aerospace Standards, and Aerospace Material Specifications. Because standards are an agreement on form, fit and function, they enable industries, engineering disciplines, and entire countries to talk to each other in a common language.

Horsepower ratings on engines were becoming a bit misleading in the late 50s and early 60s. The average car owner does not think about home much power is requited to run an A/C compressor or an alternator. Automatic transmissions and power everything also became popular in the late 60s and early 70s which sucked even more power out of engines. To keep quantitative comparisons on equal footing, the SAE decided to step in and began rating engines with the entire car attached. As a result, horsepower seemed to drop on many popular American muscle cars. Although two cars could be identical, the 1970 model would have a higher horsepower engine rating than the 1972 model. Most people understood the change, but some car owners were outraged and began buying older pre-1971 cars so they could show off their big powerful engines.

http://www.corridor-o.com/html/kids/html/horses.html


and that's not all........
 
One step further from Gross Hp (at the fly) to actual Net:

Horsepower: Gross vs. Net
By Karl Brauer
Date Posted 11-09-2000
If you've spent any time around cars or car people you're familiar with the term horsepower. And while you may have a general idea of what horsepower refers to, its exact definition and how that definition plays out in the real world can be a bit confusing. Specifically, the terms "net horsepower" and "wheel driven horsepower" are commonly seen in magazine road tests or vehicle spec boxes. But what exactly do they mean and what, if any, difference is there between the two?

We'll get its basic definition out of the way first and then move on to the difference between net horsepower and wheel-driven horsepower.

Horsepower is officially defined as "the amount of energy required to lift 550 pounds, one foot, in one second." This definition dates back to when cars didn't even exist and, despite the worldwide acceptance of the metric system (America not withstanding) in which feet have been replaced by meters, the definition remains in use today.

Generally speaking, horsepower is an indication of how capable a vehicle is at moving itself around and, consequently, the more horsepower a vehicle possesses, the quicker it can move between two points. In addition to determining how quickly a car or truck can move, horsepower has a direct relationship to top speed. As a vehicle's speed rises, additional horsepower must be expended to push it through the atmosphere. Of course, aerodynamics play a major role in top speed as well and most of today's performance cars owe as much to aerodynamics as they do to horsepower for their ability to go 150+ mph.

So if the definition of horsepower is so straightforward (550 pounds moved one foot in one second), how can the same vehicle have different horsepower ratings? For instance, Chevrolet rates the 1998 Corvette's 5.7-liter V8 at 345 horsepower. Yet a recent test in HOT ROD magazine found the car to have 285 horsepower. So what gives?

The disparity between these two figures comes from the fact that one is a gross horsepower rating and the other is a wheel-driven horsepower rating. Gross horsepower is a measurement of engine output, taken at the flywheel, without the engine installed in a vehicle. Since the engine has no load on it, all of its energy can be used for making horsepower.

Net horsepower, by comparison, is a measurement taken at the driven wheels of a vehicle on what's called a dynamometer. This is done by placing the vehicle's driven wheels on a large roller and accelerating the wheels up to redline in first or second gear. The vehicle's ability to turn this roller is measured and calculated to come up with a figure that represents how much horsepower is actually available to move the vehicle around. Because a frictional loss between the engine and the driven wheels is unavoidable, wheel-driven horsepower will always be less than net horsepower.

How much less wheel-driven horsepower will depend on how many mechanical parts exist between a vehicle's engine and its driven wheels. Since we already mentioned a late-model Corvette, we'll use it as our example. The 345 horsepower that initiate in the Corvette's engine compartment have to travel through a transmission, driveshaft, rear-differential, and two axle shafts (one for each rear wheel). That's four separate mechanical components taking a bite out of the `Vette's horsepower before the rear wheels even begin to turn. Suddenly, the 285 wheel-driven horsepower rating doesn't seem so hard to believe.

On front-wheel drive cars with transverse-mounted engines, the frictional loss is often less severe because horsepower only has to travel from the engine, through the transmission and down two short driveshafts before reaching the wheels. It should be noted, however, that in the same HOT ROD article, a front-wheel drive Dodge Neon R/T, rated at 150 net horsepower, could only muster 117.1 wheel-driven horsepower when placed on a dynamometer.

Obviously, another factor to consider in this discussion is how accurately the manufacturers rate their own engines. It's hard to believe that the Corvette and Neon could lose 17 and 22 percent of their engine's horsepower in just frictional losses. Most experts agree that a 10 to 15 percent loss is normal. This does not necessarily mean that the manufacturers are lying. The additional drop could come from a number of causes including variations in engine performance and dynamometer readings. It could also be that the manufacturers are dealing with an expertly tuned engine's running under controlled conditions in a laboratory rather than a mass-produced engine that was put together on an assembly line and sold at a dealer's lot.

Whatever the cause, it's important to remember that there will be a loss of horsepower between the engine and the rear wheels. Since most manufacturers advertise a vehicle's net horsepower rating, the number quoted in all the magazine tests and sales literature isn't necessarily how much you're going to have available for shooting away from stoplights or climbing up mountain passes. Keep that in mind the next time you're scanning spec boxes. If you really want to know how powerful a vehicle is, test drive it. If you're looking for an accurate horsepower figure, a dynamometer run is the only way to know for sure.





http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/techcenter/articles/43845/article.html
 
Edmond said:
It's done by the flywheel. Before, I think it was without any accessories and that's why they had bigger HP numbers. I think the cutoff was somwhere around 1974 or so.

For Vettes, 1972 was the first year of NET being used versus GROSS hp.

-Eric:w
 
But what is the cause for all of the variation in horsepower? Why would one LT4 have 350 hp and another have 390hp if they are built in the same factory using the same exact parts?
 
The quality control on engine parts is not perfect. if a part meets a pre set standard it is used. this means you can get an engine that is better than normal, because the parts happen to be better, or worse than usual, because the parts happen to not be as good.

Another huge factor is different dynos, different drivers, etc. I think if all LT4's went on the same dyno using the same driver and car, the numbers would be much closer together
 
Where is the Stan Adelman article? I read it once but not sure where it is on the center? Thanks
Sc
ott
 
Fugitive said:
Where is the Stan Adelman article? I read it once but not sure where it is on the center? Thanks
Sc
ott

I assume you are asking about this:

http://corvetteactioncenter.com/specs/1996/96perf.html

which is basically o/t from this thread...........this thread pertains to the differences in hp of non-modified untouched LT4's........
 
I agree with all the facts but the one variation that is not mentioned is at what RPM the max HP is acheived. You can have a 400 HP at 8,000 RPM or a 400 HP at 5,500 RPM where it is more usable on the street. The curve as to where the HP is most usable depends on how you drive the car and if it is an auto with a stall convertor or a stick. Then you have to consider gearing in the rear end, tire size, etc. I have seen guys with 550 HP engines get blown away ( drags or street racing) by lessor HP cars as the 550 HP cars could not get the RPMS up fast enough to benefit from the HP. So in essence, yes HP is important but saying you have alot at the rear wheel does not prove the car is fast unless you are running flat out on a track or hiway in the RPM range for the engine. Isn't that correct?? Then there is the question of torque but we will visit that at a later date.

Randy:w
 
Is it just me or do the two articles that lt4 gs posted contradict themselves? The first article states that until 1971 gross hp or brake hp was used to advertise engines. And then this in the same article.
Today

Net horsepower, also called road horsepower, (Rhp) is a calculation where horsepower is measured after the load from a chassis and accessories. Essentially, this is the power available at the drive wheel or wheels of a vehicle. Nowadays called SAE net horsepower, it is the only method used for advertising purposes since 1972.

Then the next article says that gross hp numbers are used to advertise. Which is it?

Leon
 
Gorgon said:
Is it just me or do the two articles that lt4 gs posted contradict themselves? The first article states that until 1971 gross hp or brake hp was used to advertise engines. And then this in the same article.


Then the next article says that gross hp numbers are used to advertise. Which is it?

Leon

It is the horsepower from the flywheel and not the rear wheels. I think too many consumers would be confused and put off if the car people advertised with rear wheel HP since the number would be less impressive. We're looking to at least a 12-15% drop in the HP number with the use of rear wheel rating.
 
Edmond said:
I think too many consumers would be confused and put off if the car people advertised with rear wheel HP since the number would be less impressive. We're looking to at least a 12-15% drop in the HP number with the use of rear wheel rating.

If HP and Torque were measured at the rear wheels would we see a variance depending on final drive ratio? If this is the case we could see 3 different figures for an LS1.

Would this happen or am I off base?

Jeff
 
JRMaroon said:
If HP and Torque were measured at the rear wheels would we see a variance depending on final drive ratio? If this is the case we could see 3 different figures for an LS1.

Would this happen or am I off base?

Jeff

Never even thought about that. I'm guessing that it wouldn't, but that's a guess. My guess is that the numbers would be the same but the peak numbers would come on at different RPM's. Does that make sense? I'm just taking a stab at that one.
 
Gorgon said:
Is it just me or do the two articles that lt4 gs posted contradict themselves? The first article states that until 1971 gross hp or brake hp was used to advertise engines. And then this in the same article.


Then the next article says that gross hp numbers are used to advertise. Which is it?

Leon
two different sources and two different opinions.....form your own conclusion....or as they say on Boomtown: One crime, many points of view.......
 

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