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Help! Using a lap top along with a dyno

corvette addict

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Oct 18, 2007
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trent woods, n.c
Corvette
2015 Z51 Black/Black
Can someone explain the process where a computer/car guy can use software to enhance the power of an engine. I remember a long time ago there was a discussion about this. Seems like certain parameters could be changed to increase the power and other things to get more out of our engines.

Thanks,
Corvett chucky
 
There is software, HP tuners and others, there are also schools that teach how to use the software. By the time one buys the software and pays for the training, a dyno tune is a cheap date.

A mistake can smoke an engine in heartbeat.
 
You buy a laptop which can run Win 7 or 8. Then you buy HPTuners software. Then you learn to calibrate. Foolhardy souls try and learn by trial and error with help from Internet forums. People serious about learning to calibrate properly, either take a class, buy training DVDs or try a home-study book.

Once you do all that, then you write a calibration and flash it to the ECM in your car.

For your 2010, if you bought a good air box, a low restriction aftermarket exhaust, then wrote a really good calibration and ran on 93-oct gas, you might see an 20-hp increase if you did it all just right.
 
Last edited:
Hib,
Although personally, I'd add the CAI and a quality performance exhaust and leave the tune alone. Because one won't get that much. Or better put it on a dyno so nothing is left on the table. Unless one is very conservative, seat of the pants tuning could prove to be destructively expensive. Seat of the pants would have never told me to add .1.

Dyno shops tune hundreds of cars and really know what they are doing. Buy a computer, tuning software and a dyno is a better and safer ROI. However, one is still missing the experience.

That being said, same as some of the group here are real good, some of the group at HP Tuners forum are real good also.
Agreed, the Internet is full of idiots, the book smart and know it alls who enjoy saying nothing. However, there are some who are really good and enjoy helping others.
 
Hib,
Although personally, I'd add the CAI and a quality performance exhaust and leave the tune alone. Because one won't get that much.

If you mean that as a blanket statement, for the most part, you'd be incorrect. Reality is that the aftermarket air filter assemblies (some of which are "CAIs") which actually work well require recalibration of the ECM MAF transfer table or they come with a modified MAF sensor which must be used with that intake kit. The only aftermarket intake kits which use the stock MAF and don't need any recalibration are not capable of useful performance gains, but they will separate you from your money.

As for aftermarket exhausts, I'd agree that most of them can be used without recalibration, but the really good exhausts may need a cal tweak to work best.

As for your blanket statement that one should "...leave the tune alone because one won't get that much" may also not be sound advice in all cases. While it is true that many factory cals these days are pretty darn good when it comes to fuel and spark at WOT, there are a number of other changes one can make that may improve performance and drivability. Changing the PE delay, changing the point at which PE is enabled, changing KR decay, changing cooling fan strategy and that's just a few examples.

Or better put it on a dyno so nothing is left on the table.

There is some calibration work where a dyno is a requirement, but there are others which are not. For example, not all WOT tuning has to be done on a dyno. In fact, in some cases, if all you do is calibrate fuel and spark for best performance on the chassis dyno, the engine may not perform well on the road or the track and you may even end up with reliability/durability compromises.

In short, a chassis or engine dyno is a tool and like any tool, it has to be used properly to be useful.

Unless one is very conservative, seat of the pants tuning could prove to be destructively expensive. Seat of the pants would have never told me to add .1.

Very few calibration changes should be made using a "butt dyno", nevertheless there are a few which can be done seat-of-pants, such as adjusting PE delay or changing fan-on strategy.

I screwed up by trying to make my earlier post brief and being too much in a hurry. I forgot an indispensable part of the calibration tool box–a wide-band O2 sensor. You can't calibrate without one. Some folks will run on a chassis dyno equipped with one, but most prefer to weld a sensor bung into exhaust ahead of the cats and install an onboard wideband.

Dyno shops tune hundreds of cars and really know what they are doing.

I disagree. Dyno shops which have good calibrators on staff are not as plentiful as you think. There are plenty of hacks who own chassis dynes. Several years ago I visited a shop which is fairly well-known for selling supercharger systems. When I took a look at their chassis dyno set-up, I was astonished. It was a single car bay, walls on three sides with a roll-up door. The dyno had been installed such that rear drive cars had to be backed into the bay. There was no way for exhaust to get out of the bay other than flowing forward, around the vehicle and out the roll-up door. Lots of "natural" EGR there for sure as the engine took in air mixed with exhaust any time a car was run. There was a lack of good cooling air flow, too.

Buy a computer, tuning software and a dyno is a better and safer ROI. However, one is still missing the experience. That being said, same as some of the group here are real good, some of the group at HP Tuners forum are real good also.
I agree, but you have the same problem wight he HPT forum as you have here at the CAC and that is: it's hard for the beginner looking for information to tell which forum posters know their stuff and which do not.

the Internet is full of idiots, the book smart and know it alls who enjoy saying nothing. However, there are some who are really good and enjoy helping others.

You got that right.:thumb
 
Hib,
I really doubt I am incorrect. 15-25 at the rear isn't something one would notice unless their mental dyno is well beyond whatever. I'm an engineer, I work with this every day. Unlike many, I can turn a wrench as well as most.

Are you recommending doing one' s own calibrations? Sure whatever you say.

We run turbos in a gas stand; care to fill me in on what that means?

Changing fan settings is a setting, what does that have to do with making power??

Did I say they are plentiful? Please point out where.

True, we agree, you screwed up earlier and continue on the same course.

Yes I know how well a CAI works; been there done that. I also index spark plugs for the miniscule amount of power it adds. Most bolt on stuff falls within what the stock tune can handle.

Look, I do this for a living same as you write for a living. Most of what I know is considered proprietary so you will not read it here. Hib, I really don't have time for this,.
 
Hib,
I really doubt I am incorrect. 15-25 at the rear isn't something one would notice unless their mental dyno is well beyond whatever. I'm an engineer, I work with this every day. Unlike many, I can turn a wrench as well as most.

Are you recommending doing one' s own calibrations? Sure whatever you say.

We run turbos in a gas stand; care to fill me in on what that means?

Changing fan settings is a setting, what does that have to do with making power??

Did I say they are plentiful? Please point out where.

True, we agree, you screwed up earlier and continue on the same course.

Yes I know how well a CAI works; been there done that. I also index spark plugs for the miniscule amount of power it adds. Most bolt on stuff falls within what the stock tune can handle.

Look, I do this for a living same as you write for a living. Most of what I know is considered proprietary so you will not read it here. Hib, I really don't have time for this,.

:chuckle
I have a funny feeling that you don't care for "technical writers" that much.
 
He really didn't say that. :thumb

Oh, WHATever.:D

We sort of got away from the question in the OP.

The short answer is "Yes", with a laptop, the appropriate data logging and calibration editing softwar and a chassis dyno–along with some skill and experience–you can change various parameters which sometimes can enhance the engine's torque output.
 
Thanks for the replies

Oh, WHATever.:D

We sort of got away from the question in the OP.

The short answer is "Yes", with a laptop, the appropriate data logging and calibration editing softwar and a chassis dyno–along with some skill and experience–you can change various parameters which sometimes can enhance the engine's torque output.

It doesn't seem worth the trouble with just 20 HP gain. Of course I don't know what those abbreviations mean in the replies.
A few years ago someone posted here that there was a lot left to pull out of these engines. I don't think they had 430 or 436
though. Frankly I don't know what I was expecting I do know it was more than 20 HP.

Thanks for all the info,

Corvett Chucky
 
Indeed there are some engines where the calibration has "a lot left on the table", but generally that's not the case, if by "a lot" one means more than 10% increase in torque output, i.e.: on a 430-hp engine a 40-hp increase.

Also, how much is left on the table is dictated in part by how much of a durability compromise you want to make in a calibration.

For instance, no doubt there more performance if you go really aggressive on the spark tables then run the car on 93-oct or better gasoline.

There's also some power in running the air-fuel right on the lean limit for best power. The problem with that is you eliminate any cat protection during long periods of wide-open throttle and it also runs the exhaust valves pretty hot.

On the other hand if you're racing and don't have cats and don't care too much about exhaust valve temperatures, then there might be 2-5% more power, there, not including what you'd gain by taking off the cats.
 
:chuckle
I have a funny feeling that you don't care for "technical writers" that much.

The :chuckle was rather silly, wasn't it?

As I employ a technical writer as a contractor and I have a lot of respect for him as he does what none of us can do. Therefore. your "funny feeling" is quite incorrect. Technical English or German, Japanese (or etc.) are something very few if any design engineers can do.

OTOH, design engineering is something very few if any technical writers can do. :Like it or not; many things are a 2-way street. Like it or not, I cannot do what you do and the same applies to you. If we could then one of us would be unemployed.
The very short form of what I am saying is do me a favor, do not put words I did not say into my mouth.

However, let me spin your statement; do you have any respect for the design engineers who you do technical writing for? I'm curious as I'd never ask my guy as I sign for his paycheck which means I already know his answer.

Basically, as everyone knows add a set of headers and performance exhaust adds XX RWHP. Usually the upgrade is within the OEM's engine calibration so the owner is happy and keeps ~$300 in his wallet. A dyno tune of the same set up will add the same XX but plus Y RWHP and it is just that simple.
Perhaps seat of the pants will get one somewhere between XX+Y; beats me. Perhaps it will blow then engine up, who knows? To be quite honest, as I know what I have and it is safe, I really don't care.

All engine manufacturers use an engine dyno, but not a chassis dyno. A chassis dyno takes a lot more floor space so as the world is happy with FWHP, why bother with RWHP. Just don't believe one's 640 FWHP is equal to 600 RWHP or be prepared for a rude educational experience.

Technical writing is intended for either internal or external distribution. For external distribution, a skilled mechanic, who does what I cannot do 8 hours a day, doesn't need engineering's Torque To Yield calculations or the Ansys analysis of engine vibrations effects on a fastener.
Nor does a FSM section on how to install a cam shaft need all the design engineering that goes into camshaft design, does it? Internal documentation would include a bunch of other "stuff" which is proprietary.

It is kinda similar to a patent; the inventor provides enough information to be awarded a patent. However he also withholds enough to make it a real challenge to beat his patent.

My point is my answer is limited by something called proprietary information or I could do a whole lot better with what I said here. Maybe 5 years after I retire I might consider it.

So no I do not disrespect anyone who does a good job at what they do. However, I am quite curious as a technical writer do you disrespect design engineers which is what I do. Internet height of urination contests bore me and. my Pitt wants to go to bed and I agree with her.
 
Technical writing

The :chuckle was rather silly, wasn't it?(snip)[/quote}

"Kpic"...the post was meant in gest.

Get a life, dude.


I was a technical writer the last 14 year before I retired. It ain't easy. To pass an audit you must right so practically any moron can read and understand what was written. If you think its easy write in detail (I MEAN DETAIL) how to change a tire.


I don't feel safe doing this stuff. I'll have to buy something faster. Thanks for the replies.


Corvett Chucky
 
I was a technical writer the last 14 year before I retired. It ain't easy. To pass an audit you must right so practically any moron can read and understand what was written. If you think its easy write in detail (I MEAN DETAIL) how to change a tire.


I don't feel safe doing this stuff. I'll have to buy something faster. Thanks for the replies.


Corvett Chucky


As I said I employ one and what he does is amazing so obviously it isn't easy. The level of detail is fascinating; a step by step detailed recipe; however, I doubt a moron could understand.

What is interesting from "our" side; although the manual is a how to cookbook, it avoids the engineering of the component. That is the part a technical writer does which I cannot do. To explain what you write so clearly; I would fall into a trap. Changing a tire is a good example. Your version would illustrate a step by step here is what one does. My version would include the whys of the torque, how much friction surface is required, the clearances of "concentric" location, etc.
It is difficult to put into words; however, consider a valve, valve guide and cylinder head. The manual would state all the measurements; not the engineering behind them.
In a manual, a value and guide have clearance measurements. The manual doesn't explain why those are the values chosen, nor the required length a valve must be supported by the guide.
With the valve fully against the seat; the nominal value with its plus-minus range when measured from the machined surface on the other side.

In reading that, I did a poor job; however explaining it all in detail would require more time than I care to invest. The short form, is someone is replacing a valve using parts designed to fit; they are not engineering a valve in an engine.

There are other technical manuals, but they are written internally which explain the engineering. Written by people who design for a living, reviewed ad nauseam, created for young engineers to profit by lessons learned. These are proprietary and no OEM or Tier 1 supplier, I have been employed by has them written.

Another point of interest, technical English is quite different than "standard" English. This is true in all languages.

Hib,
I have a life and for that matter, quite a good one.
 
(snip)
I don't feel safe doing this stuff. I'll have to buy something faster. Thanks for the replies.


Corvett Chucky

You sound like a guy who's looking for a lot more than a 10% or even 20% increase from an LS3.

In fact, you sound like a guy who ought to be looking for a used C6 Z06. Because there are a fair amount of folks who are moving to C7 and C7 Z06es, there are probably a lot of used C6 Z06 bargains.
 

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