What was wrong with the Vettes?

[O Vette]

Disappointing race. The cars were strong, drivers performed well, no serious mishaps but, they simply didn't have the speed. I know they were using tires they were not all that accustomed, however, I can't believe that accounts for the slow pace. The Aston Martins were fast and too much for Corvette. Corvette has the speed to beat Porsche and Ferrari. I don't believe they have given up with the C6 and the remainder of '13.

 

[jmhorn52]

I don't think that Corvettes weren't good It was more that the competition improved that much. Of course the weather and having the right tire for the conditions could have caused some problems

 

[cor123]

Tires played a major part of the problem. Also, the cars kept getting behind the wrong safety car which caused them to lose lap time and finally, Balance of Performance was not in the Corvettes favor. All 3 of these hurt Corvette.

a good article by BBV:

BADBOYVETTES.COM - 2013 LM24: Results

 

[Huskerman]

The fact that the #73 car got to 4th was an accomplishment. Something wasn't right......que the C7R....I think its going to be bad ass.....

 

[cor123]

One thing I noticed, in the past, competition seemed to break down towards the end. This year, competition had strong cars. Only two cars were lost in the GT PRO class, both being Aston Martins.

 

[ltmax]

Tires played a major part of the problem. Also, the cars kept getting behind the wrong safety car which caused them to lose lap time and finally, Balance of Performance was not in the Corvettes favor. All 3 of these hurt Corvette.

a good article by BBV:

BADBOYVETTES.COM - 2013 LM24: Results

Agreed. Vettes with a Lack Of Pace?! What the hell is that? ad I guess it's hard to truly know who can do what in this age of corporate influence. I'm not much of a Viper fan, but.... last? I know - new car, new season, this and that but.... last?
We have to move on now and do like last year - take the ALMS season. Then: the C7.

Vettes forever!

 

[6 Shooter]

I'd say they got their azz handed to em...

​

 

[catbert]

The sanctioning authorities, here and in, France, legislate how fast a particular make/model is by adjusting each brand's engine specification based on past performance. They get it wrong a lot. The Porsche's have been sandbagging for a year, and got engine specs that allowed them to dominate this year.

The whole idea of the sanctioning bodies "smoothing" performance differences to make close racing means there is really no direct connection between the street version of the cars that run ALMS and Lemans and the cars that race. The Vipers, Ferraris, Vettes, Astons and the Porsches are closely matched on the track, but we know the street versions are not even close to evenly matched. The entire exercise is stupid. The engines in the race cars have no similarity to to the street cars. The C6R is branded a ZR1 - a naturally aspirated ZR1. The Viper has 600 - 700 horsepower on the street and a couple hundred less on the track. The Aston is the biggest "funny car."

So don't blame the brand or the team, blame the system.

Wouldn't it be fun to see the teams run showroom stock cars like amateur SCCA racing?

 

[ltmax]

True Racing

Catburt just nailed it - run a series that allows STOCK configurations only. Leave all these artificial manipulations behind, let the mnf'r "run what ya brung" from the showroom. Wouldn't that be much more relevant to standard production offerings?
I guess we can always refer to Nordschleife times but those are single laps. A stock series would be a big help... as long as it doesn't morph into a corporate morass like Nascar!

 

[O Vette]

The Pace Car situation didn't help but, would only account for about one lap and they made that up. Other cars had to contend with that situation, also. Corvette had time to test the tire, they are not new to this game. Aston Martin's improved significantly, however, Porsche and Ferrari made no dramatic strides to improving their performance. The Vettes held up very well. I'm chalking up the lack of pace to tinkering required by ACO which is subjective at best. ACO rules just like the Olympic committee. They are old men who like to exert their authority and act elitist. Nothing wrong with being old but, those guys administer more like monarchs than impartial judges. I really think they hate to see the Vettes come over to Europe and beat their vehicles which cost twice as much. They don't like coming to the U.S. for the same reason. I'm all for having an endurance race with cars right from the showroom. That would be interesting. The rest of the ALMS seasaon will indicate if the Corvette performance at Le Mans was truly indicative of the ability of the cars.

 

[raisin man]

The Pace Car situation didn't help but, would only account for about one lap and they made that up. Other cars had to contend with that situation, also. Corvette had time to test the tire, they are not new to this game. Aston Martin's improved significantly, however, Porsche and Ferrari made no dramatic strides to improving their performance. The Vettes held up very well. I'm chalking up the lack of pace to tinkering required by ACO which is subjective at best. ACO rules just like the Olympic committee. They are old men who like to exert their authority and act elitist. Nothing wrong with being old but, those guys administer more like monarchs than impartial judges. I really think they hate to see the Vettes come over to Europe and beat their vehicles which cost twice as much. They don't like coming to the U.S. for the same reason. I'm all for having an endurance race with cars right from the showroom. That would be interesting. The rest of the ALMS seasaon will indicate if the Corvette performance at Le Mans was truly indicative of the ability of the cars.

Good points. Looking forward to a EuroCar beat-down at the 2014 Daytona 24. What goes around, comes around.

 

[catbert]

To see the specs used here in the US ALMS series check out the brand new Corvette Magazine. The Vette has to run the smallest inlet restrictor while carrying the greatest weight of any of the entrants. THAT'S how they make close racing when the cars can't speak for themselves.

 

[Huskerman]

Let um run what ya brung.....is what I say....we don't want no stinkin restrictors......:nono

 

[ltmax]

European Vette Problem

At the end of the C6 run, with all it's victories, we're at a point where the Vettes are intentionally restricted to allow competition a chance... is that roughly the take? So what happens during the impending C7 era? Hold them back AND make them use a cheezy interior?! otfl

It should be clear by now to every sportcar enthusiast worldwide that the Vette is at the front to stay. If someone hates it, that's their problem, not Vette enthusiast's problem. The Vette team's attitude of Never Give Up will see this through and win adherents along the way.

ONWARD >>>>>>>>>

 

[killain]

Sometimes you just don't get any luck . . .

The fact that the #73 car got to 4th was an accomplishment. Something wasn't right......que the C7R....I think its going to be bad ass.....

Yeah, It was a great race, but the Corvette team were playing catch up all the way through. But I wouldn't have all the victory to the Aston Martins, as Catbert put it so well, " The whole idea of the sanctioning bodies "smoothing" performance differences to make close racing means there is really no direct connection between the street version of the cars that run ALMS and Lemans and the cars that race. The Vipers, Ferraris, Vettes, Astons and the Porsches are closely matched on the track, but we know the street versions are not even close to evenly matched. The entire exercise is stupid. The engines in the race cars have no similarity to to the street cars. The C6R is branded a ZR1 - a naturally aspirated ZR1. The Viper has 600 - 700 horsepower on the street and a couple hundred less on the track. The Aston is the biggest "funny car."
The team was just out maneuvered all of the time and the rain didn't help as it was on and off all weekend and they had to go through 50 tires to try and salvage the race. :ugh

 

[cor123]

From ALMS Corvette on Facebook:

Here are two articles from this past weekend. One id Oliver Gavin's input and the other is Jan Magnussen's input. Both start out talking about how hard it was to race after the fatal accident that took the life of the friend Allen Simonsen, and I think we all need to pause for a moment and remember this great driver and his family.
As for the two articles, they both talk about the straight line speed issue, but only Jan comes out and states that how some of the teams simply sandbagged prior to the race. Oliver mentions that the tires were a big issue on getting a good setup and they were behind from the very beginning, but once the rain stopped and the track dried out and rubbered in they became more competitive. So yes they did lack straight line speed, but I believe that it was more due to sandbagging, tires, setup and weight that was the downfall to Corvette Racing at le Mans this year.
Here are the links to the articles.
Olly Gavin at Le Mans - Le Mans, Oliver Gavin - Motor Sport Magazine


IN THE COCKPIT: Jan Magnussen, Le Mans

 

[catbert]

Everyone, including the TV crew, team and competition remarked about the lack of straightline speed for the Vettes. We all know that top speed is the function of horsepower (good aero being a given) at the end of the day. NASCAR uses the same size intake restriction to even competition. In sports car racing the Vette intake restrictor is usually the smallest in the field, so the horsepower is way down. No mystery there. The team and drivers can't call out the sanctioning body on the issue. or it'll be worse next time.

In a run what you brung brawl, this race would have the Vettes, Vipers and Ferarris in a really great shoot-out. The Vipers aren't reliable yet, so it would be Vette vs. Ferarri. That would be something to watch!

 

[ltmax]

Another Curiosity

I have another question about the Porsches: I heard the announcers state that the 911's ( one or both..) have unique suspension parts like front wishbone control arms and other parts included for the purpose of testing for next years P1 entry. Is that correct? Am I off with this? Custom, non-production parts in the 911 entries?
Is this part of why Porsche won LeMans but is getting utterly destroyed in the ALMS series so far this season?

I might let go of these "racing" events and just watch a combination of Nordschleife lap times and a few choice Youtube videos to get a much more accurate assessment of the real world capability of the Vette vs. everyone else.