Calling all Drag Racers - Can I win with this LT4 6spd ?

[Idaho Slim]

Long story, I have the Drag Racing bug and intend to compete as long as i am phsically able, I will only race a Corvette. I started out racing the wife's 96 LT1, won 11 straight races (1 weekend) and took the brackett. Wife expressed concern of me racing her corvette, so i bought my own (96 LT4 - 6 spd)...... with her approval hehehehehe. So after tweaking the LT4 and dynoing at 344 rwhp, i took it to the track (1/8th mile) ....... and got beat 13 straight bracketts :-( (2 weekends). I have drag radials and the clutch started to smell, I am all over the map on my times and cannot seem to get consistent enuf to compete in these bracketts, I even had the embarrassment of the eventual winner jump the line to race me since i could not get consistent.(6 speed consistency). Wifey is not happy with going and watching my lose, and neither am I. She even offered back her LT-1 automatic to do it. I put the LT-4 up for sale, no bites ....... yet.:ugh

I adore this LT-4, pure adrenaline while driving it, but cannot justify keeping it if I race the LT-1 and return to my winning ways.

My question; ......... Am I missing something to get consistent times with the LT-4 ??? Can I compete with the LT4 at the level that i desire?

This car is in such excellent shape, that i don't want to abuse it if I cannot win at the track. I was going to install a line lock for launch, and a shift light, but after smelling the clutch and not even being close I am at a loss to continue racing the LT4.

Drag racers advice would be greatly appreciated :BOW:BOW

 

[vetteoz]

Am I missing something to get consistent times with the LT-4 ???

When you learn how to launch a stick car.
That is why most run a auto for strip use ; easier to get consistency on the launch ( where a drag race is won and lost as you found out)
Launching a man C4 consistently ( especially one with Hp ) is a work of art that only comes with practice
( lots of it )
Have to find the sweet spot of revs / clutch operation and be able to duplicate it every time
1st thing I did was replace the 4+3 with a auto ( loved the 4+3 for street driving ) because I could never launch the same every time
Too many revs/ too fast on clutch ; up in smoke .
To little revs / too slow on clutch ; engine would pull down
Lose either way ;squint:
What are your 60 ft times?

 

[Hib Halverson]

As "Idaho Slim" has observed:
1) Consistency is the mother's milk of drag racing.
2) It's much harder to gain consistency with a manual than with an automatic...not impossible, but certainly more difficult.

If you're going to continue to race the manual, I wouldn't worry so much about adding a line lock as I would about a) changing the clutch, b) getting the right tires on the back then c) learning how to launch the car consistently and, again...that ain't easy, as I can atest.

 

[93Rubie]

I really cannot add anything but simply agree. My 93 is a 6 speed and is challenging to launch at the drag strip. I WILL learn to launch this car. I do not run brackets or anything like that. I just go to Test N Tune days and try to beat myself. I have learned how to shift like a crazy monkey, but getting a good laucnh now that is the hard part.

My best 60 foot is a 2.17. Best ET 13.52@108.83 MPH. If I can get those 60 foot times into the 2.0-1.9 range you are looking at a high 12sec. LT1 Corvette.

The trouble is getting the 60 foot times. Check this guy out. I am going to try his method and practice, practice, practice. Seat time is key. It is the only way to get better, find a empty parking lot or back road, and just practice launching the car.

Launch Tips

 

[Hib Halverson]

That "launch tips" is about the best description I've read to date of how to do a drag strip start with a stock or near stock Corvette with either street tires or drag radials.

Coordinating the rapid (but not "popping") clutch release with a rapid opening (but not "hammering" or "nailing" it) of the throttle, is the hardest part.

The writer says he gained this knowledge though 700 drag strip starts is likely not exaggerating. It takes practice, practice and more practice. Unfortunately a lot of people aren't going to have the wear-and-tear on the car nor the rear tires to invest in such an endeavor.

 

[vetteoz]

You can also do some chassis tweaking
On launch when the rear of the car squats ,the tire leans in at top lifting the outer part of the tire off the track reducing your contact patch
Your nice 11" wide tire might only be in contact with the track on 6" at max load time Also aids rear end durability because full torque is not going through uni joints when they are at a angle ( half shafts aiming up )

Make some bump stop extenders that prevent the half shafts going past level
Disconnect spring bolt on one side , jack susp until half shaft level and measure distance between bump stop rubber and knuckle.Add a little extra for rubber compression.

Get some round or square stock , cut to length ,drill a hole through and thread each end M10 x 1.5.
Bump stop screws into extender , a bolt holds it in the frame

For the first couple of feet of a hard launch,the car will ride on the bump stops effectively giving you a solid rear

 

[catbert]

I was a weekend warrior for a long time. When you are not a track rat who takes dozens of passes a week, it's hard to get consistency with a stick shift. I was a big winner in my 98 and 05 autos, but suck with the 07 Z06.

 

[Idaho Slim]

I really cannot add anything but simply agree. My 93 is a 6 speed and is challenging to launch at the drag strip. I WILL learn to launch this car.
Launch Tips

That "launch tips" is about the best description I've read to date of how to do a drag strip start with a stock or near stock Corvette with either street tires or drag radials.

Coordinating the rapid (but not "popping") clutch release with a rapid opening (but not "hammering" or "nailing" it) of the throttle, is the hardest part.

Thanx guys, Hib has been coaching me for a couple months, and I take his advice to heart. Rubie, perfect link on what i have been trying to find about a stick racer. I will study it thoroughly! Get this, during the summer races, I was frantic thinking on how to get more consistent and even thought about a not so violent launch and then "Give'n Er" :duh Encouraging that I was not at a total loss and even on the correct path!

My 60' times started being consistent at around 1.94 - 2.05, I did manage a 1.89 and of course my fastest time of the day , 8.51 in the eighth. Now if i could just repeat that run closer than 8.60 to 9.10! With the LT1 auto, I was much slower 60', but was always within .20 or under dial in consistency.

I think I will hang onto the car this winter (It's in storage now) and practice with the "Launch Tips" method in the spring. Financially, holding onto the LT4 is not an issue, but sensibly, if I dont race it .............

Hib,
#1. You say No line lock - I have crept a couple times on the line, How to stop that without a L.L. ? (not feather the clutch at the line?) I will definetley install a shift light for repeatable shifts.

#2. I have the 315 goodyear street drag radials, they hookup HARD, I was running 17 lbs. and it did bog the car, so I upped the rpm at launch and after a couple runs could smell clutch. I was thinking of adding tires psi to find the fine line between slipping the tires and burning the clutch??

#3. This is the second time you mentioned clutch work, what kind? The car has 52,000 miles on it, I would think this clutch in good condition, or are you thinking upgrade?

Good tips vetteoz and all, i appreciate them!

 

[Pete K]

You may be able to do it, but it is not within my ability to comete toe to toe in a dragrace with a properly set up auto trans.

If I were going to take a serious shot at it, I would do the following:

1)Install a shift light with a window switch.
This would allow you to set the shift light to come on at a predetermined rpm. You could stage, bring up the revs to the suitable rpm, activating the light. The window switch would go off at an rpm just above the desired launch rpm.
* I would install this in the defroster duct.
2) Install a shift light that you will use to hit your shift points down track.
3) Put the stickiest tire I could find on it. Not a drag radial, but a real tire.

 

[93Rubie]

I need a shift light too, its really hard to watch the tach, and the track at the same time. I would love to have 60 foot times like you are getting, Idaho Slim.

Did everybody check out Ranger's videos of him driving Corvettes to very fast times for basically stock cars??? That guy and F*&^'en drive. WOW!!

I do not know how one would get like 700+ passes in. I go about 4 times a year, with about 3 runs a night or so. So figure 15 passes a year, times 20 years is only 300 runs!!! He must have deep pockets.

 

[93Rubie]

Thanx guys, Hib has been coaching me for a couple months, and I take his advice to heart. Rubie, perfect link on what i have been trying to find about a stick racer. I will study it thoroughly! Get this, during the summer races, I was frantic thinking on how to get more consistent and even thought about a not so violent launch and then "Give'n Er" :duh Encouraging that I was not at a total loss and even on the correct path!
My 60' times started being consistent at around 1.94 - 2.05, I did manage a 1.89 and of course my fastest time of the day , 8.51 in the eighth. Now if i could just repeat that run closer than 8.60 to 9.10! With the LT1 auto, I was much slower 60', but was always within .20 or under dial in consistency.

I think I will hang onto the car this winter (It's in storage now) and practice with the "Launch Tips" method in the spring. Financially, holding onto the LT4 is not an issue, but sensibly, if I dont race it .............

Hib,
#1. You say No line lock - I have crept a couple times on the line, How to stop that without a L.L. ? (not feather the clutch at the line?) I will definetley install a shift light for repeatable shifts.

#2. I have the 315 goodyear street drag radials, they hookup HARD, I was running 17 lbs. and it did bog the car, so I upped the rpm at launch and after a couple runs could smell clutch. I was thinking of adding tires psi to find the fine line between slipping the tires and burning the clutch??

#3. This is the second time you mentioned clutch work, what kind? The car has 52,000 miles on it, I would think this clutch in good condition, or are you thinking upgrade?

Good tips vetteoz and all, i appreciate them!

I have been talking to a guy on another Corvette Forum and he has won his class in bracket racing, with a LT1 ZF6 car, he launches off idle. Lots of practice to do this, but he has got it down pat. If I can find a link to one of his videos, I'll post it. It is very impressive, he even admits it took a lot of practice to get on to, but can be done. FYI, he runs 13.0-13.1 all night long.

 

[vetteoz]

its really hard to watch the tach, and the track at the same time.

Wasting your time .
Stock tacho is accurate but readout lags behind actual engine revs as you find out if you have a aftermarket one beside it :ugh

 

[93Rubie]

Poop so I do need to shift at 5500 in order to not hit the rev limiter. Good thing that is what I have been doing.I have noticed the speedo lags quite a bit too, I have watched it as I go through the traps and it says like 102-104, then I get the time slip and it is 109. Ok...:W

 

[bartric]

Wasting your time .
Stock tacho is accurate but readout lags behind actual engine revs as you find out if you have a aftermarket one beside it :ugh

You guys read the Tach? Wow. I drove a '97 Camaro with a 3.8 for about a year, and about after 6-8 months of driving it, I could throw that 5 speed around and never miss a beat, to me it sounds like you just need to go out and drive the thing, do a little back street racing, get a good ear for your car. If you can't shift by ear, you haven't driven it enough in my opinion.

 

[Hib Halverson]

You guys read the Tach? Wow. I drove a '97 Camaro with a 3.8 for about a year, and about after 6-8 months of driving it, I could throw that 5 speed around and never miss a beat, to me it sounds like you just need to go out and drive the thing, do a little back street racing, get a good ear for your car. If you can't shift by ear, you haven't driven it enough in my opinion.

It that was true, you wouldn't see shift lights in Pro Stocks, Pro Mods, Super Gas cars, Super Stocks along with...any bracket car that's competitive.

No question, watching the tach is distracting and gives you inaccurate info because of the lag, but shifting "by ear" is almost as inconsistent.

A shift light is a better way to go.

I use an AutoMeter "DPSS" which combines a digital numeric display with a shift light which is adjustable for color and brightness. The nice thing about the AutoMeter DPSS is that it goes into a standard 2 1/16-inch hole and fits in a windshield post pod. It also can be set up to log data and if you have a brake switch installed (to tell it your ready to make a pass) it even can be programmed to turn on the light at different rpms which is good when you need to balance your reaction time to the light against rpm rise rate in different gears. Lastly, it has an option for a launch light.

 

[bartric]

It that was true, you wouldn't see shift lights in Pro Stocks, Pro Mods, Super Gas cars, Super Stocks along with...any bracket car that's competitive.

No question, watching the tach is distracting and gives you inaccurate info because of the lag, but shifting "by ear" is almost as inconsistent.

A shift light is a better way to go.

I use an AutoMeter "DPSS" which combines a digital numeric display with a shift light which is adjustable for color and brightness. The nice thing about the AutoMeter DPSS is that it goes into a standard 2 1/16-inch hole and fits in a windshield post pod. It also can be set up to log data and if you have a brake switch installed (to tell it your ready to make a pass) it even can be programmed to turn on the light at different rpms which is good when you need to balance your reaction time to the light against rpm rise rate in different gears. Lastly, it has an option for a launch light.

Because people have them doesn't make them great. A flashing light is most definitely going to catch your attention to remind you exactly when to shift, which may improve consistency, but so can driving your car more often and learning it.

You shouldn't be driving the car, you should be using the car as an extension of yourself. Until you can do that, you're no better than Johnny playing Gran Turismo on his Playstation.

 

[Hib Halverson]

Because people have them doesn't make them great. A flashing light is most definitely going to catch your attention to remind you exactly when to shift, which may improve consistency, but so can driving your car more often and learning it.

You shouldn't be driving the car, you should be using the car as an extension of yourself. Until you can do that, you're no better than Johnny playing Gran Turismo on his Playstation.

Your point about not "driving" but using the car as an extension of ones self is a valid point.

"bartic"...can you give us an idea of how much bracket drag racing you've done? How many events have you won?

 

[bartric]

Your point about not "driving" but using the car as an extension of ones self is a valid point.

"bartic"...can you give us an idea of how much bracket drag racing you've done? How many events have you won?

Well, unfortunately none, which gives me no real reason to try to give anyone a 'driving lesson', I'm just stating my point, maybe in too much of an authoritarian way, and for that I apologize. I'm most definitely not going to argue with you Hib, because from all the stuff I've read, you're a very knowledgeable and respected person around these parts. I've never had the car to be able to take to the strip, just good enough to push it around back roads near the cars limit and against other people when my throttle foot is feeling a bit froggy. It was just my opinion :/ Sorry.

 

[Hib Halverson]

Well...like I said, I think practice and experience such that the car is more an extension of ones self rather than a device you operate is a valid point.

The best bracket drag racers are going to be very comfortable with their car...to the point that it is an "extension" of theirselves.

That said, shift lights have been a long-accepted way to better consistency in drag racing and maybe they need to be viewed as just one part of making the car an extension of yourself.

Whadaya think?:confused

 

[jonszr1]

hib has some great ideas on this subject. if i may add just a couple of things you can do to help with your launch . the snubber extentions are now being made in various sizes by bill boudreau aka the zfdoc. i was at his house not too long ago and showed him the ones i made for my 92 callaway 475 super natural zr1 that i drag race 10-12 times a year . contact him and he can make a set for you .he could also steer you to a clutch that will hold up better at the strip, also one of his blueprinted trannys a re just wonderfull for the strip when it has one of his short throw shifters . i have his trannys in both my zr1s and the difference is night and day . my 92 had run a best of 12.48@116.57 mph . i changed the exhaust from a corsa to a 23/4 in with a 3 in xpipe then going back into 23/4 in pipe to dyno max 23/4 in super turbos that have a 3 in entrance and 2 21/2 in exits. that got the car to mph of 117.90 but only dropped the et to12.28. then i bought some of the new nitto nto5r drag radials , added the extentions to the snubbers so that they were a .3tenths of an inch off the knuckle pads when the car was sitting at rest . and dropped my 60 ft times from 2.05 to 1.81 and the car finally got into the 11s running 11.94@117.90 mph in 95 degree weather @ famoso in aug . . i run my tire pressure between 19-21 as i found that with both the mickey thompson et street drag radials i used at first and the new nittos would cup alittle in the center if i went any lower . you can also take out the front sway bar link effectivly dissconnecting it .that will help the front end lift easier . use rangers burnout tech and off you go to better 60 ft times . too bad you arent down my way we could meet up at fontana or famoso and work on your starting line tech .one other thing you could do if you have the fx3 shock package is to get the lingenfelter computor and chip for the suspension that has a drag race mode for the shocks . hope maybe some of this has helped . and also pay close atten to any thing his suggests as he has alot of knowledge on our cars .