I've learned some stuff!

[FISHAWK]

You know, when I first started reading stuff on this forum I thought I was just involving myself with a bunch of know-it-all cry-babies ( like so many other forums) but I was mistaking. I am a competent mechanic and have done almost all of my own work on every car I have ever owned (as a side effect of being monetarily challenged) but I really have learned a lot of Corvette specific info on here...Like... Running a 160*thermostat isn't such a good Idea, and replacing my bushings with poly ones may not be a good one either... stuff like that, so anyway now I'm glad I gave it a chance!

 

[boomdriver]

You know, when I first started reading stuff on this forum I thought I was just involving myself with a bunch of know-it-all cry-babies ( like so many other forums) but I was mistaking. I am a competent mechanic and have done almost all of my own work on every car I have ever owned (as a side effect of being monetarily challenged) but I really have learned a lot of Corvette specific info on here...Like... Running a 160*thermostat isn't such a good Idea, and replacing my bushings with poly ones may not be a good one either... stuff like that, so anyway now I'm glad I gave it a chance!

The thing about this group is that its made up of professional Corvette enthusiast.
And because we love what we drive, we too have been targeted by the slick marketing dept of every automotive aftermarketing agency on the planet. Most of us have spent money on junk that made certain promises, and being who we are, these companies know full well that if they say the magic words.....(perform, HP quicker..etc) that someone will bite.

So there is LOTS of experience here. Whats so interesting is that most all the people here have gone full circle and now agree that life without a FSM is just a hole in their pocket.

Corvettes do pretty well when left alone. GM engineers did good.
Knowing how to get them right and keep them right without making a deposit at the bank of BS, is the goal. Save the aftermarket purchases for things like sunshades or car covers...maybe the hard parts when its time or when there is a plan in place.

For what these guys can figure out sight unseen in one afternoon of Q&A would cost $500 at the local shop and they'd get it wrong !

 

[FISHAWK]

I learned some stuff

The thing about this group is that its made up of professional Corvette enthusiast.
And because we love what we drive, we too have been targeted by the slick marketing dept of every automotive aftermarketing agency on the planet. Most of us have spent money on junk that made certain promises, and being who we are, these companies know full well that if they say the magic words.....(perform, HP quicker..etc) that someone will bite.

So there is LOTS of experience here. Whats so interesting is that most all the people here have gone full circle and now agree that life without a FSM is just a hole in their pocket.

Corvettes do pretty well when left alone. GM engineers did good.
Knowing how to get them right and keep them right without making a deposit at the bank of BS, is the goal. Save the aftermarket purchases for things like sunshades or car covers...maybe the hard parts when its time or when there is a plan in place.

For what these guys can figure out sight unseen in one afternoon of Q&A would cost $500 at the local shop and they'd get it wrong !

Yeah like I mentioned in past posts I want to improve my Corvettes performance,ETC. But I also don't want to destroy any of the reliability. I want to stay with the original concept as much as possible! Anyway thank you for your comments!

 

[bill81vette]

This forum tries to be EXACTLY what you have said it is..
just a bunch of enthusiasts,who take our corvettes seriously,
with out flaming or making you feel like your
the biggest A-H in the world!!!!
Glad you enjoy the forum!!!

 

[aklim]

Yeah like I mentioned in past posts I want to improve my Corvettes performance,ETC. But I also don't want to destroy any of the reliability

I doubt you can. The more performance you have the less reliability. Sure, you can beef it up some and it will help in reliability but there will come a point where the added reliability will be run over by the power. After all, the more power you put thru, the more stress you put on it.

 

[boomdriver]

I doubt you can. The more performance you have the less reliability. Sure, you can beef it up some and it will help in reliability but there will come a point where the added reliability will be run over by the power. After all, the more power you put thru, the more stress you put on it.

I dunno...
I've found that the safest performance upgrades are simply cleaning up the factory mass production defects. The engineering and design is great...its the mass produced intakes, heads, things like that were they work well , just not as efficiently as they could because they fall within "design specifications" and meet the requirement which is pretty loose when compared to a high-end car like a ZR1 or Zo6.
When you fix the gasket overlap in the intake and heads, and clean out the big casting ridges inside the passages, you can increase the performance, yet maintain the original reliability. When you balance the rotating assy you add life to the motor. When you take your time assembling the motor and pay attention to detail, you find power thats always been there in the design but unable to expose itself due to imperfections in the factory assembly.

Thats how the latest ZR1 keeps its high level of reliability AND generates so much HP and torque...its assembled like it were a micro-processor in a clean room,with many extra steps taken to assure that the designed motor is exactly what is delivered, and the parts are strictly controlled and inspected so that the very best go into the car. This practice is'nt practical for most production cars, but for $100,000+ they can leave the robots to build pick up trucks and assemble a Z by hand. Point being that you don;t find gasket edges in a Z intake, and the benefit is power AND a car thats as reliable as the sunrise.

Thing is, that NOBODY reassembles their motor the way it was...they always add something from somehwere else and the more they add, the less they can rely on the design...because it ends up NOT being what was designed.

 

[aklim]

I dunno...
I've found that the safest performance upgrades are simply cleaning up the factory mass production defects. The engineering and design is great...its the mass produced intakes, heads, things like that were they work well , just not as efficiently as they could because they fall within "design specifications" and meet the requirement which is pretty loose when compared to a high-end car like a ZR1 or Zo6.
When you fix the gasket overlap in the intake and heads, and clean out the big casting ridges inside the passages, you can increase the performance, yet maintain the original reliability. When you balance the rotating assy you add life to the motor. When you take your time assembling the motor and pay attention to detail, you find power thats always been there in the design but unable to expose itself due to imperfections in the factory assembly.

Thats how the latest ZR1 keeps its high level of reliability AND generates so much HP and torque...its assembled like it were a micro-processor in a clean room,with many extra steps taken to assure that the designed motor is exactly what is delivered, and the parts are strictly controlled and inspected so that the very best go into the car. This practice is'nt practical for most production cars, but for $100,000+ they can leave the robots to build pick up trucks and assemble a Z by hand. Point being that you don;t find gasket edges in a Z intake, and the benefit is power AND a car thats as reliable as the sunrise.

Thing is, that NOBODY reassembles their motor the way it was...they always add something from somehwere else and the more they add, the less they can rely on the design...because it ends up NOT being what was designed.

Take a stock block and blueprint it and you will increase it's longevity. Yes, you might get a little more power out of it but that is that. Now, toss a cam in it, better heads, bigger injectors and you will lose some of the longevity you just built in. Take that ZR1 you talk about and try to push more power out and you are shortening the lifespan. So yes, as long as you make it more reliable AND do NOT push too much more, you are right. Max it out and you lose reliability.

 

[FISHAWK]

I guess I started it!

Well I started this post so I guess I need to clarify what I mean by reliability, The small block Chevy( i.e. 350) can be asked to make more power than some may think because it is a strong design to start with, and as long as you are not unreasonable in what you ask from it reliability isn't an issue! What I mean is, it can still perform reliably on a daily basis as long as you don't go overboard with the modifications!

Thank you Boomdriver, I agree with you!

 

[WhalePirot]

Learning is always good, huh?

Having broken a D36 rear end but also having a car that was almost a DD with huge power, I am in the middle. Surely, GM made cost/benefit decisions, perhaps leaning to the lower cost side more, in the past decade +, except when they felt that the pricier choices would return on their investment. Don't we all.

I believe that better quality parts can replace what Chevy installed, increasing power while adding life, but one needs to weed through the hype and BS; a process this forum abets. My car is tuned for premium fuel unlike the stock car. The car is very well engineered but I feel the bean-counters had their way a bit too much; then that is also true of BMW and others.

Chevy engineers gave us a great platform to personalize, didn't they?

 

[aklim]

Well I started this post so I guess I need to clarify what I mean by reliability, The small block Chevy( i.e. 350) can be asked to make more power than some may think because it is a strong design to start with, and as long as you are not unreasonable in what you ask from it reliability isn't an issue! What I mean is, it can still perform reliably on a daily basis as long as you don't go overboard with the modifications!

Thank you Boomdriver, I agree with you!

Aye. There's the rub. what is the definition of "reasonable"? The stock 350, IMO, is an acceptable platform. It cannot breathe and your torque is down low. Once you put intake, heads and cam, headers, chip and maybe injectors, you are going to push it up on top. I would speculate that each explosion in the cylinder is going to be more forceful. How many of us have the discipline to refrain from hitting it every now and then? I know my Firebird was a DD and I would WOT it 3-4 times a day. With my current combo, it made 410 at the wheels till the car was totaled and motor and trans transplanted to the Vette.

Now that I have removed the restrictions and allowed it to push the limits and I do WOT it when driving, I can't see how it would last any longer than a stock block that cannot push up on top

 

[boomdriver]

Aye. There's the rub. what is the definition of "reasonable"? The stock 350, IMO, is an acceptable platform. It cannot breathe and your torque is down low. Once you put intake, heads and cam, headers, chip and maybe injectors, you are going to push it up on top. I would speculate that each explosion in the cylinder is going to be more forceful. How many of us have the discipline to refrain from hitting it every now and then? I know my Firebird was a DD and I would WOT it 3-4 times a day. With my current combo, it made 410 at the wheels till the car was totaled and motor and trans transplanted to the Vette.

Now that I have removed the restrictions and allowed it to push the limits and I do WOT it when driving, I can't see how it would last any longer than a stock block that cannot push up on top

Its really hard to say why or how sometimes...
I knew of a guy that took a stock L98 C4 and added a 150 wet shot Nitrous and ran the thing at the strip ALL the Time ! Then drove it home.
I figured that motor would come home in a box after a couple weeks, but it stayed together and was also a DD. The only thing I can figure was the attention to performing the maint and never abusing it, beyond screaming a stock L98 at 6000+ rpm with a bottle for 1/4 mile at a time..:ugh

 

[aklim]

Its really hard to say why or how sometimes...
I knew of a guy that took a stock L98 C4 and added a 150 wet shot Nitrous and ran the thing at the strip ALL the Time ! Then drove it home.
I figured that motor would come home in a box after a couple weeks, but it stayed together and was also a DD. The only thing I can figure was the attention to performing the maint and never abusing it, beyond screaming a stock L98 at 6000+ rpm with a bottle for 1/4 mile at a time..:ugh

Not sure about that. I have known people that didn't make 1 pass on nitrous and people like your friend. I think it has a LOT to do with the setup. If you set it up properly, you might be ok. OTOH, if you have the gas turned on 24X7 and flail on it, maybe not.

 

[FISHAWK]

Last gasp on this subject!

Well guys I guess my Idea of "street engine" is completely different than some, but I want a car that I can drive anywhere and not worry about it all the time. So I am staying on the mild side so... It makes a tad over 300hp But... over 400ft/lbs of torque from 2000 to 4500rpm, which is enough to make me smile, but that is all I intended to do anyway. So it isn't a race engine, but I don't race, so that would be pointless!
so anyway like I've said before, accent what engine was designed for!
Anyway I'm not here to argue with anyone,just to enjoy the joy of Corvette ownership with fellow enthusiast

By the way doesn't the LS7 make 505hp all day long without blowing up? it's something to look into!

 

[aklim]

Well guys I guess my Idea of "street engine" is completely different than some, but I want a car that I can drive anywhere and not worry about it all the time. So I am staying on the mild side so... It makes a tad over 300hp But... over 400ft/lbs of torque from 2000 to 4500rpm, which is enough to make me smile, but that is all I intended to do anyway. So it isn't a race engine, but I don't race, so that would be pointless!
so anyway like I've said before, accent what engine was designed for!
Anyway I'm not here to argue with anyone,just to enjoy the joy of Corvette ownership with fellow enthusiast

By the way doesn't the LS7 make 505hp all day long without blowing up? it's something to look into!

At 300-350, you should be ok if you fix the valvetrain, cam and heads but I wouldn't go more than that. New injectors if you still have the multecs and a chip.

Yes but it is very difficult to get the LS7 to drop in. So yes, that is still street power, as far as I am concerned.

 

[ParisTNDude]

Strength in Numbers

There's no question about it...as many fanatics as there are on this forum, any question you might have, someone has encountered it and found a cure for the problem. This is a great forum!