Help! 1995 Sport Seats, no movement fore or aft, side to side

[vertrx7]

Hello,
After much searching, I recently bought a 1995 convertible with the sport seats. Everything worked initially, but now things are falling apart.

First issue. The seats initially moved back and forth, side to side on the driver's side. Passenger side was very difficult to move back and forth no side to side.

Then the driver's side quit moving sideways, but still back and forth. Then tonight it wasn't able to move back and forth at all. I got home, was able to then get forward movement out of it once. Now there's nothing. Unfortunately, the seat is now all the way forward.

I took the cushion out and everything is hooked up. Lifted the switch (center console) up and there's power going to it from the big orange wire. Now I'm stuck. No movement out of either side of the switch. (Lumbar pump clicks on several of the buttons and I'll fix the pump per the repairs.)

So, is it the switch or do those relays under the driver's seat go bad? Fuse is ok.

Help!!

Ralf

 

[JimBobC4]

I have just gone through disassembling each and every gear and wiring harness for a set of 1995 Sport seats in a convertable. I still have them sitting on the garage floor with test leads attached. What do you want to know ?

Can you be more clear on the " sideways and back and forth" portion ?
In my mind they move forward, backward and up and down. Both in Front and in the rear of the seat.

The pnuematic or air portion is seperate from the movement portion so they should be addressed differently.

Are you willing to unbolt the seats ? :eyerole cuzz it sound like thats going to be your first step.

What works and what doesn't ? Your seat has 3 motors that move it.
Each relay controls one of the motors and determines what side is being moved. We can easily wire around the relays for troubleshooting.

Do they all at least try to move ? With the seat cushion up, the cable should at least move a bit even if the gears are bound.

If you need pictures of the bottom of the seats let me know.

 

[vertrx7]

Wow, thanks for your focused reply.

At this point, I'm not addressing the lumbar, pneumatic issues which it also has. Just the actual movement of the seat in its tracks.

Neither passenger nor driver are moving forward, backward, up nor down. But this situation did not arise at once, but slowly over the period of about a week. There is no buzz or any other kind of sound or movement. Driver's side had all movement as of a week ago and the passenger side at least moved in the middle of its range back and forth, though not up or down. Unfortunately, the driver's is all the way forward which is where it gave up the ghost at this point. No movement, no sound.

The switch is getting power as my simple probe lights up when I touch the orange wire on the underside of the switch.

I wouldn't have a problem taking out the seats, but not sure if I can with the seat all the way forward. I can certainly see the rear nuts holding the back down. Someone has been in there monkeying with something, as one of the corners is held down by a large wing nut as opposed to a nut.

 

[JimBobC4]

Ok. I'm at work now but I can give you a brief idea of how the seats operate. Also, that wing nut may be part of the bracket that originally held down the factory lug wrench. its hard to see back there but that bracket covers the nut that holds down the seat.

The switch in the center console should be hot all the time. That switch
operates the three relays under the drivers seat. Those relays switch the
power from drivers side to passenger side using the console switch. The relays are powered by a main feed that comes from the center of the car. This harness has yellow and white wires in it. You will also see 2 connectors that are very similar in wiring colors with blue and green wires in it.
One side feeds the relays, one side feeds the passenger side. Your results may vary


That harness ( the main relay feed) will actually plug directly into the seat motor(s) plug, bypassing the relays.

My first step would be to bypass the relays and plug that feed directly into the motor plug. This disables the DS and PS switch as well as the bank of relays.

If your drivers side seat still doesnt work you may have mechanical gear binding issues and not electrical ones.

I know this sounds complicated but it removes 2 major components from the puzzle.

One last note, and I'm not real sure how good you are with DC electricity work, but you do have a test light so you understand the basics,

The main plug going into the motors contains 2 power leads for each motor. If I thought I was missing voltage that is where I would start checking.

This part is a little unclear to me as its not in front of me however
I'm 98.3% sure

With the motors labeled as 1 , 2 and 3 from front of the car to the back.

1. Moves the front of the seat up and down.
2. Moves the seat forward and back.
3. Moves the back of the seat up and down.

I hope this helps.

 

[vertrx7]

OK, I'm with you. I've got a little experience but can follow directions on things electrical. My RX7 is/was a nightmare on things electrical as can be the Miata's.

I saw the green and blue harnesses and the red, white and yellow power feed harnesses.

In my search for this problem, someone did say those are six pin plugs and you can interchange them. So I plugged the green and blue harnesses together which didn't make sense to me looking at where they came from. Of course that didn't do anything.

I also joined the red/white/yellow plugs together. That did not give me a response either. From what I'm reading you're saying, that will bypass the switch. If that is pure power, then the motor should have been going on its own. But what if it reached the stop going forward, would it just start going back again? IN other words, if the motor has power all the time, would it be humming or moving...I couldn't control it since a switch wouldn't be in the equation, right?

So, based on what I did last night, the motor is fried? But the motor for the passenger doesn't work either. Something isn't right...!

Edit - I just reread what you're saying. Each motor has two plugs. Maybe I plugged the main power lead into the wrong plug? The color scheme and male/female matched up.

 

[JimBobC4]

I also joined the red/white/yellow plugs together. That did not give me a response either. From what I'm reading you're saying, that will bypass the switch. If that is pure power, then the motor should have been going on its own. But what if it reached the stop going forward, would it just start going back again? IN other words, if the motor has power all the time, would it be humming or moving...I couldn't control it since a switch wouldn't be in the equation, right?

So, based on what I did last night, the motor is fried? But the motor for the passenger doesn't work either. Something isn't right...!

Edit - I just reread what you're saying. Each motor has two plugs. Maybe I plugged the main power lead into the wrong plug? The color scheme and male/female matched up.

Sorry I was a little unclear. Each motor has 2 wires. They all go to the same plug. Im saying route the main feed ( yellow and white wires, directly to the motor plug, which is tied up under the seat. It bypasses the DS\PS switch and the relay section but not the movement switch.
Also, I don't think all 6 motors are fried. Remember each one performs a seperate function and none of them work.

Sorry for the confusion.

Also, if you can work on an RX-7 electrical system a 'vette is a peice of cake !

 

[vertrx7]

OK, this is becoming clearer. I think then I did tie the main feed switch to the motor plug. Those colors were all the same and it was a male/female union.

I then tried the switch (glad to know it isn't bypassed, that makes sense now) and I still wasn't getting any action out of the switch. On none of the motors apparently, which makes sense since I bypassed the passenger side anyway. None of those would come on line at this point with the bypass.

Does this set of facts lead to the conclusion that the switch is the culprit or am I jumping to a conclusion? Power at switch but no power is getting to the motors...and if I'm still going through the switch, is that what is preventing power from getting to the motor? Is there a way to put power directly to the motor or not worth testing?

 

[JimBobC4]

1.Does this set of facts lead to the conclusion that the switch is the culprit or am I jumping to a conclusion?

2.Power at switch but no power is getting to the motors...and if I'm still going through the switch, is that what is preventing power from getting to the motor?

3.Is there a way to put power directly to the motor or not worth testing?

1. The switch could be it but we haven't totally eliminated it.

2. Possibly as not much exist in between but straight wiring.

3. Yes, you can jumper DC electricity straight to the motors at the plug.

However, if you go this far it is TOUGH to do it in the car, I would remove the seat and flip it over. This step would remove all doubt about the switch AND enable you to drive the car if you wanted. Just jumper the middle motor and see if the seat goes back.

One final note, I used a gear wrench to get the front seat nuts off. It is tight but possible.

 

[vertrx7]

I'll give it a whirl.

Details on jumping that motor. Two longish wires inserted into the motor terminals at the plug the other end into a power source like the battery? I can bring the wiring down with me or is there a better way?

Gearwrench, check!

 

[JimBobC4]

I'll give it a whirl.

Details on jumping that motor. Two longish wires inserted into the motor terminals at the plug the other end into a power source like the battery? I can bring the wiring down with me or is there a better way?

Gearwrench, check!

I did it exactly as you have it written. I soldered 2 nails to the end of the wires so as to not short across anything. I attached one to the + and one to the - of the battery or in my case a DC power supply.

One last note, don't be suprised if you pull the seats out and all the gears and rods and things are rusted and seized. They are bare uncoated steel. So one good rainstorm with the top down and those components are swimming in water. Instant rust. penetrating oil and a vicegrips worked well for me with a nice even coat of grease afterword.

Get the movement going again on the seats and we can get started on the pnuematic portion . Its way more fun to work on but O so cool
when the seat bolsters wrap around you.

I'm going to button mine back up this weekend if I can get the side bolster airbag back in place. Good luck !

 

[vertrx7]

Great advice. I think I'm still going to get one of those switches. Not cheap though.

On the passenger side I've noticed rust on the floor. I bet the rails are as you describe. Driver's side is going to be the curious one. I'll let you know and thanks for the future help with the lumbar. That will be interesting.

Ralf

 

[vertrx7]

Well, in this ongoing tutorial for my own knowledge and education, I bought a used seat switch and kind of hooked it up to the hot and grounds and also under the seat. Lo and behold, the seat motor worked. I noted that the switch is not removed from the panel. Underneath, the guts are held on by 4 small screws, so you remove the circuit board and paddles. The actual lever that is manipulated on the top stays on the panel. Since I have the lumbar switch on my panel and the one I got was a single power switch for the standard seats, I will have to remove the circuit panel and switch that with my panel. I will also have to figure out a way to remove the actual lever on the top since I think this is part of the problem.

Passenger side also worked, albeit with some disgruntlement as I fear it has gotten wet and rusty, judging by the rust stains on the carpet. Removal along with installation of the switch this weekend planned.

Lumbar Switch Issue:
On to the lumbar which also started working. Interestingly, those darned soft lumbar air hoses under the driver's seat kept coming off while I was manipulating the plug. During this time, when pressing the buttons on the switch, I'd get a quick sound from the lumbar motor and that was it.

Now, noticing a black hose with a right angle nipple was off its connector, caused the pump to become active. This hose sucks air in. Attaching the hose to a fitting where all the other hoses are attached causes the pump to imitate its initial groan, not working. Removing the hose causes all but one of the buttons to make the pump seem to work. At least its pumping (with black hose off)

Alright, first, is there a way to tell the order of all those colored hoses? I may have messed up the order when they kept coming off. Where does the black hose with its right angle nipple go to make it work?

 

[JimBobC4]

Removal along with installation of the switch this
Lumbar Switch Issue:

Alright, first, is there a way to tell the order of all those colored hoses? I may have messed up the order when they kept coming off. Where does the black hose with its right angle nipple go to make it work?

Nice way to spend a weekend, been there done that its actually relaxing for me to dork around with my vette as my '95 isn't my daily driver, it's therapy.
In the garage with the race on with a cold one
working on the 'vette with my buddies

thats a good weekend to me.


Back to the seats. That's excellent you got them to move ! I can't wait to
actually use mine, they are still on the garage floor.




The tubes are in order from back to front of the seat

Red - top lumbar
White - middle lumbar
Blue - bottom lumbar
Black - side bolster
Black- the other side bolster

also a black input exist under the first row listed above. this is coming from the pump.

The main pump is under the passenger seat. The air compressor pumps into a module that does 3 things,

1. Diverts the air from drivers to passenger side
2. regulates air pressure, only a certain PSI of air in or out. This module always keeps a little air in the seat so its not flat.

3. reverses the pump flow .. suck or blow

That module has 3 ports

1. Input from the compressor
2. output to the drivers side
3. output to the passenger side ( a white slip on connector )

The outputs go to the module that diverts the air to the different air bladders in the seat. The one with the colorful tubes. Each seat has one.

The ds\ps switch controls the left or right seat air diversion.

The seat lumbar switch controls the module that has the colorfull tubes
and the suck or blow portion of the pressure regulator assembly.

A long tube ,the slip on connector on the ps, goes from ps to the ds seat ending in the DS seat air diversion, color tube flux capacitor thing.

As for the tubes slipping off, I cleaned mine really well with q tips and alcohol, cleaned the ends and pushed them on and they are tight now.

I hope this helps

 

[vertrx7]

Thank you for taking the time for your reply. In terms of a search, I think we've got one of the most comprehensive write up's on the problems and fixes for these seats. None of the other search results have yielded this detail!

I'll be taking my seats out on to the garage floor this weekend as well. I'm thinking I'll clean the tracks, fix the the hoses in the car and then Leatherique the seats to make the leather soft again. I'm thinking that since they seem to have some fading, I could even sand them down and redye them as Leatherique will custom match the color. Can't say enough good things about those folks. Great to deal with in terms of leather care!! Iv'e gone to visit them at their house to pick up supplies and they've been great!

Anyway, thanks for the hose tutorial. I'm thinking that the one black hose with the 90 degree elbow that sucks air in, must be the one that sits on the bottom. Its the only one with that elbow. That pump seems to be working!

I'm driving this car for fun to work and leaving the VW TDI for the major weekend I-95 roadwork, but I'll be driving the Corvette home so I can do the work in my garage in VA. I'll be back in touch on the weekend with more questions, i'm sure!