454 Small Blocks pros & cons ... your comments appreciated

[Stan's Customs]

Looks like it wouldn't be much different since the body and suspension is basically the same...

Does anyone have any specific information....regarding the frame differences..? Frame schematics for alignment or frame straightening for instance.

 

[BarryK]

Looks like it wouldn't be much different since the body and suspension is basically the same...

Does anyone have any specific information....regarding the frame differences..? Frame schematics for alignment or frame straightening for instance.

like this one?
http://69.253.166.197/page1/page65/page65.html
click on the first file , called "C2 Frame Specs.pdf"

 

[Stan's Customs]

Yepper that'll do. Now all that is needed is the same for a '65 and up ...(big block app.)

 

[BarryK]

Stan
I believe those frame specs are the same for all C2's as the dimensions are all the same, the only difference between '63-'64 and '65-'67 frames is the indent in the front crossmember. That indent wouldn't change the overall dimensions shown in that chart.

 

[Stan's Customs]

Thats what I thought Barry...

But I haven't actually compared them and Kid_Again said that there would have to be mods made for a big block to be mounted in the earlier model mid year cars.

If the frames are the same then a big block can be installed in "all" the midyears with factory pieces...and no modifications...correctomundo?

 

[BarryK]

no, you are misunderstanding.
the frame SPECS, regarding the overall dimensions and measurments, are the same on all C2 frames, BUT starting in 1965 they modified the frame a little in the front to allow clearance for the BB motors. That modification was an indent in the front crossmember. Now, i'm not sure if that indent is there for clearance for the larger size of the motor or it's it's there for clearance of the different radiator used on BB applications, but it's required to be there to fit a BB motor in on a C2 car.
the frame specs stay the same, the difference on the '65 and up cars is only the indent.
A BB motor will not fit in a '63 or '64 frame without modifying it for the indent.
i'm not sure how that indent can be made on a '63 or 64 frame - maybe it can be pounded into the frame with a big-a$$ sledgehammer , or perhaps the front crossmemeber can be cut out and a replacement one from a '65-'67 frame welded back in, or perhaps the frame itself needs to be completely replaced with a later year frame. Those answers I can't help you with since I've never done it.
it's the indent, and only the indent in the front crossmember that is different on the '65 and up cars and it's that indent that allows clearance for the BB motor install but the overall dimentions and measurements of the frames all stay the same.

Did this make it any clearer?

 

[Stan's Customs]

Exactly what I was wondering...However specs are specs and that includes differences in the saddle or crossmember. I'm sure that indent is for the larger oil pan..now that has been clarified. Many of the earlier big blocks cars are that way.. As I suspected if that is the only difference, a very easy modification...especially since originality wouldn't be a factor here. Easier than motor mount modifications generally speaking.

Point being.... nothing to it provided anyone wants to put a big block in one in the first place.

 

[vetteman64]

Large CI small blocks

More food for thought, look into the "small" block Chevrolet engines Dougans (LA area) and Shafiroff (NY State) have recently built and were written about in various auto magazines. They both start with the latest "Little M" DART manufactured block (aluminum avail too, I believe), add a custom stroked crank and heads to feed the engine. The results are close to 500 CI, with torque/HP comparable to the CI, streetable too as the compression is compatible with average pump gas. The downside is the cost and even more for an aluminum block. I dream of one, will probably settle for a ZZ383 crate engine.
C Ya, Joseph Rock
Frankenstein 59

 

[Viet Nam Vett]

Exactly what I was wondering...However specs are specs and that includes differences in the saddle or crossmember. I'm sure that indent is for the larger oil pan..now that has been clarified. Many of the earlier big blocks cars are that way.. As I suspected if that is the only difference, a very easy modification...especially since originality wouldn't be a factor here. Easier than motor mount modifications generally speaking.

Point being.... nothing to it provided anyone wants to put a big block in one in the first place.

There are also other things that need moding... New HD "U" Joints... Differential Driving side yokes should be changed to the cap and bolt HD type "U" joint retainer style.

And..it your using a 502 like I am with Alum heads.. You'll need special headers to mate with the ports on the heads. The stock BB Iron exhaust Manifolds do not mate correctly and will rob Gobs of HP from the motor due to there poor design.

All the work was worth every penny.. It's now a different animal...

 

[Kid_Again]

whatever...your bb won't fit a 63/64 frame without substantial modification...you will be ****ing away money

 

[Stan's Customs]

If trimming the crossmember is substantial modification then you are right kid...Other than that..

If you use the "exact" components that come in a 66 or 67...I see no problem, in fact it would be rather simple....for a mechanic.

 

[motorman]

no, you are misunderstanding.
the frame SPECS, regarding the overall dimensions and measurments, are the same on all C2 frames, BUT starting in 1965 they modified the frame a little in the front to allow clearance for the BB motors. That modification was an indent in the front crossmember. Now, i'm not sure if that indent is there for clearance for the larger size of the motor or it's it's there for clearance of the different radiator used on BB applications, but it's required to be there to fit a BB motor in on a C2 car.
the frame specs stay the same, the difference on the '65 and up cars is only the indent.
A BB motor will not fit in a '63 or '64 frame without modifying it for the indent.
i'm not sure how that indent can be made on a '63 or 64 frame - maybe it can be pounded into the frame with a big-a$$ sledgehammer , or perhaps the front crossmemeber can be cut out and a replacement one from a '65-'67 frame welded back in, or perhaps the frame itself needs to be completely replaced with a later year frame. Those answers I can't help you with since I've never done it.
it's the indent, and only the indent in the front crossmember that is different on the '65 and up cars and it's that indent that allows clearance for the BB motor install but the overall dimentions and measurements of the frames all stay the same.

Did this make it any clearer?

the indent is to clear the crankshaft pulleys

 

[Stan's Customs]

Thanks for that tidbit Motorman...I was really curious what the purpose for the indent was for sure...

Stan

 

[Mark Stahl]

This motor will drop into 63/64 with no mods or indents. It is based around a sb chevy. The darn thing just fills the space up like crazy. Mark (sixty4).