86 Not cranking

[Peer81]

Hello everybody,

A friend of mine has a 86 convertible. His last starter had 2 cracks in it so we removed it (not shimmed correctly we think). Now we have a refurbished starter and from time to time it still will not start. We were thinking about the VATS but the problem is, the Vette will start with the normal key and with an extra key that doesn't have the VATS resistor in it. When the vette can be started with a key without the VATS risistor we think the VATS is already bypassed and so isn't the problem.

Today she started without a problem. Drove for 30 minutes, temps up to 92c. Stopped the engine and started it right away, no problem (tried both keys). Then we stopped the engine waited for 5 minutes and tried to start again, coolant was up to 102c and oil still 92c, but the engine wouldn't start with the normal or the other key. The engine didn't crank, and not a sound from the starter or the solenoid! When the key was in the start position the center display showed the "security" and "anti-lock" lights and they went out when we put the key into the "running" position. After that we waited 1 or 2 hours, coolant was back to 73c and the engine started without a problem...

We're thinking toward the starter, maybe a monday morning refurbished one? But my question are there also other explainations, maybe there're also other parts that can cause the same problem?
Thanks!

Greetings Peter

 

[Schrade]

Hello everybody,

A friend of mine has a 86 convertible. His last starter had 2 cracks in it so we removed it (not shimmed correctly we think). Now we have a refurbished starter and from time to time it still will not start. We were thinking about the VATS but the problem is, the Vette will start with the normal key and with an extra key that doesn't have the VATS resistor in it. When the vette can be started with a key without the VATS risistor we think the VATS is already bypassed and so isn't the problem.

Today she started without a problem. Drove for 30 minutes, temps up to 92c. Stopped the engine and started it right away, no problem (tried both keys). Then we stopped the engine waited for 5 minutes and tried to start again, coolant was up to 102c and oil still 92c, but the engine wouldn't start with the normal or the other key. The engine didn't crank, and not a sound from the starter or the solenoid! When the key was in the start position the center display showed the "security" and "anti-lock" lights and they went out when we put the key into the "running" position. After that we waited 1 or 2 hours, coolant was back to 73c and the engine started without a problem...

We're thinking toward the starter, maybe a monday morning refurbished one? But my question are there also other explainations, maybe there're also other parts that can cause the same problem?
Thanks!


Greetings Peter

Incorrect starter shimming usually will cause unusual sound as the pinion drive engages the flywheel teeth.

Sounds like a vats gig. This thing got headers?

 

[vetteboy86]

My car has headers and the car goes through starters every 5 years or so it seems like. I bought the lifetime starter so I get a new one. I know with my trans am there is no heat shield for the starter, and if it is heat soaked it will not start.

I'm also thinking ignition switch? May need to do some testing at the starter solenoid next time it doesn't start.

 

[vetteoz]

an extra key that doesn't have the VATS resistor in it. When the vette can be started with a key without the VATS risistor we think the VATS is already bypassed.

Obviously the VATS is bypassed.

I think you have the classic SBC starter heat soak problem.
Either install a heat shield or get the later (88- 96 ) Denso mini starter which is smaller and moves starter away from exh.
CHEVY CORVETTE HIGH TORQUE STARTER 88-89-90-91 5.7L:eBay Motors (item 130320035926 end time Aug-19-09 19:00:13 PDT)

FWIW; I have a stock 20yr old Denso starter on my 11:1 383 w/ headers and never have a problem in common summer 35-40C (>100F) heat here

 

[vigman]

I agree the VATS is bypassed...

But something else is funky.....

The best place to start is temp in a test light to the line that feeds the starter solenoid.

It SHOULD be tagged as close as possible.. or at least on the firewall side..

That way when you call for the car to start.. you can see if there is voltage present..


I would start there...

with heat soak.. you would at least hear a click from the soloniod..

Vig~

 

[Peer81]

Thanks everybody,

The 86 is stock exept for a true dual but no headers. To my knowledge I would also say if it's heat sock you would at least hear the solenoid click.

My idea was to check what was used to bypass the vats, maybe that has decayed in some matter, although it's very unlikely. And a good idea to start with checking the voltage when its not starting. I was thinking about that but when the engine is hot I'm not the person to crowl under the car and burn my hands on the exhaust. But extending the wire with another is a very good idea. Thanks! Keep you updated!

Groeten Peter

 

[gmjunkie]

grounds,Grounds and GROUNDS!! Check ALL the GROUNDS,Engine and Chassis!! I'd start with the Stud on the bell housing,Remove the nut,2-4 wires and then remove the stud bolt and Clean the threads (Both Ends)and reinstall!! 95% of the electrical problems I encounter with Corvettes are caused by OPEN or High Resistance GROUNDS!! Been there,Done That,Got 100+ Tee Shirts!!:L:L:L

PS Also check the starter interrupt solenoid connections and GROUND around and below the P/B/B behind the Battery while you have it out!! You will have to have the battery out to clean All the Grounds!!

 

[vigman]

I'll bet the following

If you remove the drivers hush panel.. I'll bet you'll find a Mid Amreica VATS bypass resistor pack.....

If you can start it with the right key & the no pellet key...it has to be bypassed.

Junk again is the man with WELL GROUNDED ADVISE...
Vette's grounding.. after many years SUCK...

I forgot was the car stick or auto?

Vig~

 

[Peer81]

Thanks all for the advise!

When the car was cold and started we drove it to a garage with a lift. Simple testing showed the starter was the problem. Lucky for us a company in town had another new one. Put that one under the vette and after some testing it's still starting like it should!
Thanks everybody

Groeten Peter

 

[vetteboy86]

Good deal