87 vette no start

[jeff eggert]

87 vette will not start unless I manualy advance timing by turning distributer 1/8 turn then must retard to keep it running but it will (ping) at this setting under hard acceleration . after shut down must repeat this procedur to restart. runns fine ,dont think timing chain has slipped valve timing seems to be ok runs to good for chain to have jumped a tooth have checked all wireing from ignition to ecm and to esc have replaced ecm,esc, knock sensor ,ignition module and e-prom am thinking of installing vacume advance distributer anyone have any ideas or should I just part it out :bash

 

[jeff eggert]

appleton wisconsin wont start if timing is set to factory specs ,has electronic advance /retard was thinking of installing vacume advance distributer if I cant overcome this

 

[jeff eggert]

all grounds are ok

 

[killain]

all grounds are ok

I have to agree with Jeff, Bad grounding is a problem not often found in late model corvettes, but it is a often overlooked problem. Early C-2 corvettes had this problem the worst. I had a 59 roadster that I learned much about automotive electricity from. An 87 is twenty years old and the ground straps often are subject to corrsion from all the water and dirt piled up over all those years. just my 0.02, good luck!

 

[G Winter]

How many miles are on the engine? I don't know if GM still used the nylon coated timing gears in those yrs but if they did and you have high mileage I would bet on the timing chain having jumped or the damper ring having moved. If the damper had moved you wouldn't get the pinging under load.Put a vacuum gauge on it with the timing set at the factory specs. If vacuum is low suspect the cam timing.

Glenn

 

[jeff eggert]

I heave had car for 3 years am using ALLDATA.com for information ,specs no codes I talked with a (old time mechanic) 40 years with GM truck dealership he says he hasent seen a small block chevytiming chain jump a tooth sincethey stopped using nylon cam gears in the 60s says chain would have to stretch about 1 1/2 inches to do it unfortunletly he doesnt know much about the electronics on these newfangeled cars the advance/redard isnt working have checked all wireing replaced all modules that have anything to do with ignition system all voltages are at factory specs its a real mystery was hoping someone here might be able to help cant afford to take it to dealer and give them blank check know what I mean? thanks to all who have tryed to help -jeff:confused

 

[killain]

Try checking your timing marks by bringing #1 to TDC like you
would do to install the dist . Check the grounds ? Is this
Appleton NY ? Have you checked your vacuum

How about this, have you tried to bring the engine to TDC, and then set the dist. in so it's set on number one, and tried to start it? You didn't say you that this : if this happered because of ? Did you install or replace something? If so did you reassemble in the right order? If you could provide some more info maybe we could help out better. I only have a Haynes manual at hand, but the proceedure for starting is very simple, but you need to check the distributor cap and all the connectors, set it for no.1 TDC and install. If it won't continue to run there could be a problem with leaking intake manifold gaskets? or a bad dist. cap OR you could have a fuel issue. BTW. Is ther enough gas in the tank that the fuel pump can pick it up? I know this sound crazy, but I'm trying be helpful.

 

[killain]

TDC of the #1 piston not going by the timing marks , worth a try .

No, there is no reason to believe the timing chain is bad or that you have jumped the timing. Use the marks and reset the distributor just like your putting the engine together for the first time. but watch the position of the rotor and see if it points to the left front of the engine. The left most front spark plug wire is No. 1 cylinder. It should be able to install the distributor and fire up the engine, if not then there's another cause. It may not run well, but it should start.

 

[G Winter]

Not sure if this would cause it to not start . Have you checked the EGR valve? Maybe has chunk of carbon stuck under the seat.


Glenn

 

[vetteoz]

If the damper had moved you wouldn't get the pinging under load.

confusedconfused:confused
The facts.
The engine starts with a certain spark advance (when he sets it manually ) and runs at another setting.This rules out anything mechanical like timing chain ( steel in '87 ) or balancer.
He is obviously not getting ECM control of the spark advance, as noted by the knock under accel.The ECM is not adjusting the spark to suit the conditions the engine is running under.
But he has replaced all the components.
How about the control module in the dist itself?
Can you borrow a known working dist to try?
FYI , you can't run a vac advance dist as it will not interface with the ECM.

 

[jeff eggert]

yes I nave replaced ignition control module and had it tested at Auto Zone thanks you seem to understand whats going on ,or not going on

 

[jeff eggert]

Any progress ?

no ,Im thinking about parting it out .cant afford to take it to dealer and its no more than a 1 ton door stop the way it is

 

[killain]

no ,Im thinking about parting it out .cant afford to take it to dealer and its no more than a 1 ton door stop the way it is

Why? does it have other problems that can't be fixed or are you just discusted with the repair work? It must be in OK condition for you to be working on it?

 

[jeff eggert]

Any progress ?

just discusted

 

[killain]

just discusted

Well i can only tell you when i bought my 79, it was so bad that it took two quarts of oil and a two hour drive just to get it home. Once i started working on it, it didn't need any one thing, it needed one of everything. I was overwhelmed. So I start on the one thing that would make me feel the best. I got the engine tightened up and leak free. That way no matter how bad the project was going, I could always get in and fire it up and just listen to it idle. If you break it down into "Jobs" and work one at a time you soon see progress and feel better about the whole project. I bought my car knowing 1. I was going to keep this car for awhile, and 2. I wasn't 'Investing' in a collector car. I was just restoring the car for my own pleasure. Good luck. it will be better tomarrow !

 

[TWISTERUP]

87 vette will not start unless I manualy advance timing by turning distributer 1/8 turn then must retard to keep it running but it will (ping) at this setting under hard acceleration . after shut down must repeat this procedur to restart. runns fine ,dont think timing chain has slipped valve timing seems to be ok runs to good for chain to have jumped a tooth have checked all wireing from ignition to ecm and to esc have replaced ecm,esc, knock sensor ,ignition module and e-prom am thinking of installing vacume advance distributer anyone have any ideas or should I just part it out :bash

I would still check and BE SURE the timing chain hasn't stretched. Here's how : Remove the distributor cap--turn the crankshaft clockwise while watching the dist. rotor--when the rotor moves--turn the crank counter clockwise and watch the rotor movement--the amount of movement you get in the crank before the rotor starts to follow is the amount of "slack" in the timing chain/gears. May not be a problem ,but it's worth a look.

 

[jeff eggert]

no one seems to understand what I am trying to say let me try to explain . if I set the timing to factory specs the engine will not start ,I have to advance the timing by turning the distributer 15to20 degrees advanced it will start but I must retard it to keep it running at this setting it pings under acceleration ,and if I shut it off it will not restart unless I advance it again .it seems that the electronic spark control isnt working the timing chain cant stretch enough to cause this all wires,modules,check out ok .for some reason distributer and ecm are not talking to each other I know a LOT about mechanics but nothing about electronics guess I should have kept my 82

 

[G Winter]

I didn't see you respond if you had unhooked the EST wire when you set the timing. The ecm will be adjusting the timing while your trying to set it if you don't have that wire disconnected. On my 90 I think it is a tan wire with a black connector plug that hangs out of the harness near the distributor . We aren't discounting your experience but want to be sure your aware of this.

Glenn

 

[jeff eggert]

I didn't see you respond if you had unhooked the EST wire when you set the timing. The ecm will be adjusting the timing while your trying to set it if you don't have that wire disconnected. On my 90 I think it is a tan wire with a black connector plug that hangs out of the harness near the distributor . We aren't discounting your experience but want to be sure your aware of this.

Glenn

yes I have disconected est ,the problem seems to be the ecm isnt adjusting the timing when the est is connected

 

[vette079]

OK, let me come up with the dumbest question ever.

Do you have a trouble code?
If not, does the SES light work?

Someone mentioned the knock sensor.

Can the knock sensor set a code?

Just a thought.