89 not Starting!

[Niteswench]

My '89 decided to die yesterday while idling in the garage. It will not restart. The engine turns over, but will not fire. I have spark; I have fuel pressure. First, I checked for trouble codes; none present. Then, I pulled the 4 plugs on the driver's side; they were all wet as if it was flooded. I cleaned up the plugs, set them aside to dry while letting the cylinders dry out. Re-assembled. The lady cranked over but still wouldn't fire. Pulled the plugs again and they were wet again. So, I let the car dry out overnight.

This morning, checked each plug for spark which was big and bright. Removed distributor cap; rotor was in correct position for cylinder 1. Put probe in #1 spark plug hole and hit piston top so don't think timing chain has jumped. Reinstalled plugs. Turned the engine over; still won't fire. Found plugs to be wet again.

The lady has 104,000 miles on her with virtually no major repairs. Any idea what to do next? Or, what the problem might be?

 

[Ripp 73]

When you say the plugs are wet... do you mean like water wet or oil wet? What color is this wettness? Also what color (if any) is it? I'm not sure I know what the problem is, but just trying to get a little more information to help out.

 

[Niteswench]

The plugs have fuel on them ... not water or oil; it is definitely gas.

 

[John Robinson]

Being choked

I am not familiar with the 89 but if it has a carburator or a throttle Body I believe there is a good chance the choke butterfly is stuck giving you a rich condition.

 

[Niteswench]

Nope ... that's not it, either. Through research, found it may be bad / broken o-rings at the injectors. Back out to the garage to check that now.

 

[WhalePirot]

it may be bad / broken o-rings at the injectors.

Seems unlikely that all would fail at the same time.

What is your fuel pressure? I wonder if the fuel pressure regulator crapped out and you're getting full pressure instead of the reduced pressure that an idling engine (high vacuum) would demand.

A hand vacuum pump should be able to draw it down, if the internal diaphragm is intact. If it does, perhaps the vacuum feed to it is broken/leaking. I don't have a manual with me here in Singapore for the troubleshooting procedure.

Just an idea.

 

[Moonunit 451]

Sounds like Fuel just pouring in, check the regulator as Pirot said. If you've got a guage the pressure should be 42, there's a place to hook up on the intake area on the pass side if I recall corectly. It's like a valve stem cap you take of and screw the guage to.

WELCOME to

 

[Niteswench]

Checked the fuel pressure; it went as high as 49, but leveled out about 42. Don't think it was the regulator. Haven't had time to finish checking the o-rings, either; spent yesterday at the hospital after having pin removed from thumb.

But, you're correct Moonunit ... it seems fuel is just pouring in. What is strange is that I started the car up ... and it started like it usually does. It idled for about 20 seconds; I revved it a little (mostly to frighten my son who was walking by); and it continued to idle for almost a minute before it just 'died'. No slow down in idle or anything ... just running as usual one moment and nothing the next. I tried to restart her. The engine turns over and it sounded once like she was going to fire, but didn't.

As I said earlier, the fuel pressure is good; the spark is good; she just seems to be flooding herself out and I have no idea why.

 

[Niteswench]

OK ... still messing around with this Lady and about ready to give up!

I found one injector that wasn't working as it should. Changed it out and all the o-rings. Put everything back together and found I didn't have fuel pressure at that point. Tore it all back apart and together once again. Had a mechanic friend look at it. He thought it was the fuel pump. Just finished replacing it. And, while I was at it, manually moved the crank to top, adjusted the distributor to match ... thinking maybe she jumped a tooth on the timing belt. As you can tell, I'm running out of ideas!

I have great spark, power at the injectors, she's getting fuel. She cranks but won't turn over.

If anyone has any thoughts, please let me know. I have a 'need for speed' but can't get the Lady out of the garage.

 

[I_R_DA_ONE]

My 86 is doing the exact same thing......I replaced the fuel pump with AC/Delco pump,,, replaced strainer....replaced fuel pump relay.... HEI coil ,,,,Pickup amp in distr... rotor button....plug wires...and still no start....... once in a while it will start and run perfect.... then it will turn over but not start.... could this be the VATS system locking me out??? I was running down the interstate at about 80 mph and the motor turned itself off and would not start... I got it home and three days later I went out to the garage and it started up normal... and I had done nothing to it.... My car acts like the ECM will not allow it to start at times.... My question is,,,, is there something I am overlooking??? What input turns the fuel pump relay off other then the pulse signal from the distributer being lost????

 

[tigmaned]

man i hate to hear about your guys grmlins! don't be mad but i hope mine dosen't get this! GOOD LUCK! and post the fix for everyone!

 

[I_R_DA_ONE]

I am still working on it...If it would just send up a code, I could figure it out...
Mike R

 

[I_R_DA_ONE]

Yesterday it would not start,,,turn over but no fire....today I went out to start it and it started right up...running as it should...I'm going to replace the oil pressure switch next....still no codes from ECM....
this is pulling my hair out...
Mike R

 

[John Robinson]

Just to be sure

The last thing we ever think about checking when we have a no start condition is the oil level. The General was real good about putting fail safe switches for low oil levels. Thise would shut down the ignition so you could not run the engine and damage it on warrenty.

 

[Vettefreak100]

I dunno if this helps, but I have a friend at a machine shop who gave me a paper on the 1989 Corvette that was having rough idle and would not start. It's a GM service bulletin ya know the one's that say "General Motors Bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, not "do-it-yourselfer" I got a kick out of this one. Anyways it says the condition is for cars that don't start, take a long time to crank, may start and stall, or may have engine surge or rough running. The cause is is the relay used for producition P/N 14103304, may not conduct enough current to allow the mass air flow circuits to operate properly. THE RELAYS WILL TEST OK. The fix is Both the MAF relays (Power and Burn-off control) should be replaced with relay P/N 14089936. This relay is serviced with a bracket, which is used only for 1988, and can be discarded for the 1989 model year. The loaction of the relays is shown on page 8A-20-9 of the 1988 and 1989 Corvette service maual. The O2 sensor may also be carbon coated because of this condition. To clear the carbon, apply parking brake, and allow the engine to warm up to normal operating temperature. Hold RPM at 1800 rpm for 3 minutes. Also I've heard the PROM in the Vettes can go bad causing your computer to think the engine is doing something it's not. This can lead to making it run the injectors to rich or too lean as it tries to fix the problem. Good luck I have a 1989 Corvette and am trying to figure out what's wrong with it right now. It seems like you have to fire parts at these things to figure out problems.

 

[jmccloud]

No Start

I had your symptoms on a '91 Regal including the occasional start and run for a minute or so, wet plugs, lots of fire, correct fuel pressure.
After several days of trying and observing, I noticed the 'Service Engine' light did NOT come on with the key. Followed the troubleshooting guide in the service manual (that took 2 days to find) and traced the problem to either a bad ECM ground, bad 12v feed to the ECM (blown fuse) or bad ECM. Of course the ground and 12v feed were OK so I bit the bullet and bought an ECM.
Runs like a charm.
Don't know whether your year and Corvette versus Buick are similar but check your 'SES' light and find that troubleshooting tree in the Helms manual.
Hope this helps.

 

[MPoore]

Some observations:

1. There should be an oil pressure switch that will cut off fuel in the event no oil pressure is detected. Check your wiring diagrams. It should be part of the fuel pump relay circuit.

2. If the engine runs for less than 2 minutes before stalling, the ecm is operating in "open loop" and ignores most sensor readings until "closed loop" operation. This means a faulty sensor may not trigger a trouble code.

3. A cold engine is supposed to run rich, not to mention prolonged cranking, which may explain "wet" plugs.

4. The wet plugs would seem to indicate the injectors are firing.

If the engine will run for a while and stall, tap one of the injector wires with a test light so you can see a flash every time the injectors fire. Attach a fuel pressure gauge and timing light. Then you can see what causes the engine to stall. Once you can focus on a system, troubleshooting will be easier.

 

[I_R_DA_ONE]

I went out yesterday to start my car and it ran normal....so I took it for a drive....ten miles down the road it turned itself off again.....I replaced the oil pressure switch and the fuel filter again and the Knock sensor......but it still will not start and no codes...I jumper pins A To B on the code reader pickup and all I get is code 12 nothing else.. I have spark to the plugs and power to the injectors and 40 # gas pressure...I think I will be looking for a 4sale sign next.....Mike R

 

[MPoore]

Check the ignition module. You can take it to Autozone for a free check. Make them do it several times so it gets warm.

Also check the ignition switch. Could be loose connection. Do the lights go when it stalls?

Possibly the ecm, but I would rule out EVERYTHING before replacing the ecm.

Make sure you test for spark and fuel, when it won't run.

 

[I_R_DA_ONE]

Mpoore
When you say the ignition module are you talking about the ESC.... engine spark control??? I have plenty of fuel about 39# of pressure...and plenty of spark.... I went out to see if it would start today and it ran perfect.....but I am afraid to take it anywhere because of the failure rate of the car.....I have a spare ECM so I will take it with me on my next trip.....If it would only give a code I could figure it out... I did find that the fuel pump was poorly grounded.....but I still had a failure after fixing that
Thanks
Mike R