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Ls1smlblck
Guest
Hi guys, hopefully in a few months or by the end of the year I plan on getting a 89-90 Vette. What kind of engine mods can I do before changes to ECM will be needed? Already looking at exhaust( headers, etc.)
You can do the K&N air filter with a cut lid thing. You can also get one of those air-foils, they can be had for like $30 on eBay. Some question the upgrade, but you can't really do that bad for $30. If you get a 52mm TB, you'd have to redo the ECM though.
But you really won't see massive gains until you do open that thing up for a cam, heads, etc...
And by the way, Jeff the moderator, can custom burn a chip for you. I dealt with him and he's a pleasure to deal with.
But you really won't see massive gains until you do open that thing up for a cam, heads, etc...
And by the way, Jeff the moderator, can custom burn a chip for you. I dealt with him and he's a pleasure to deal with.
vader86
Well-known member
Any cam change requires a Chip change, unless its really close to the stock profile. Of course, any cam that makes power will be very different from the stock profile.
The aftermarket intakes will likely run rich or lean unless theres a chip change also.
Basically, it depends on what power numbers you want and what youre gonna use the car for (cruiser, autox, drag).
The aftermarket intakes will likely run rich or lean unless theres a chip change also.
Basically, it depends on what power numbers you want and what youre gonna use the car for (cruiser, autox, drag).
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- #4
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Ls1smlblck
Guest
Mainly a cruiser, but would like to have hp in the 330-350 area.
vader86
Well-known member
To get that power, its possible to keep the stock-style intake.
Youd need a new exhaust, longtube headers and catback.
You can port the plenum, add some AS&M runners and a TPiS Bigmouth or Accel base. Port match everything and port the stock heads, and add something like an Accel 211 or ZZ9 cam.
If you want over 350, youll need to ditch the stock setup and go with Superram or Miniram. Miniram should only be used with a 6speed, IMO.
Superram and Accel 219 cam, ported heads, and exhaust will put you well towards the 350-400 range. Any further than 400 will probably require some AFR 190 heads.
Youd need a new exhaust, longtube headers and catback.
You can port the plenum, add some AS&M runners and a TPiS Bigmouth or Accel base. Port match everything and port the stock heads, and add something like an Accel 211 or ZZ9 cam.
If you want over 350, youll need to ditch the stock setup and go with Superram or Miniram. Miniram should only be used with a 6speed, IMO.
Superram and Accel 219 cam, ported heads, and exhaust will put you well towards the 350-400 range. Any further than 400 will probably require some AFR 190 heads.
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vetteguy216
Guest
Vader can you help me out also? I have a '87 as of now the only mod I have done is putting on a chambered exhaust system. I do have a SR base but it is not installed. I was thinking about siamiease porting it. I will be stroking it to a 383 I would like to achieve 450hp 500tq while still using the TPIS upper and was thinking about going to as&m runners. I would like to have a slight gurgle.
vader86
Well-known member
vetteguy216
You mean you want to use the ported plenum and TPiS runners to get 450HP? Well good luck, the best ive seen is about 400hp and 490TQ. And that was on a 355, not a 350.
In addition to porting the plenum and matching up the runners and base, youd definitely need new heads (AFR 190s) because the 87s heads arent the greatest. Full headers, 1.6 RR, and a cam bigger than the ZZ-X, 225/229 is what this guy used and it does have a bit of a lope.
But i dont think you can get any further than that without going to an unstreetable cam, or a supercharger/nitrous.
edit-i missed the 383 part, you can get that power goal with all this in a 383
You mean you want to use the ported plenum and TPiS runners to get 450HP? Well good luck, the best ive seen is about 400hp and 490TQ. And that was on a 355, not a 350.
In addition to porting the plenum and matching up the runners and base, youd definitely need new heads (AFR 190s) because the 87s heads arent the greatest. Full headers, 1.6 RR, and a cam bigger than the ZZ-X, 225/229 is what this guy used and it does have a bit of a lope.
But i dont think you can get any further than that without going to an unstreetable cam, or a supercharger/nitrous.
edit-i missed the 383 part, you can get that power goal with all this in a 383
Vader,
He said with a 383 right? I think 450hp-500tq could be achieveable with the right combinations and ECM tuning.
That car would be a monster though!
I do believe the 87 still had the cast iron heads right? So he would definitely have to go with the ported/polished aluminum heads. From what I've read, the aluminum heads are easier to work with and the disappate heat much better.
He said with a 383 right? I think 450hp-500tq could be achieveable with the right combinations and ECM tuning.
That car would be a monster though!
I do believe the 87 still had the cast iron heads right? So he would definitely have to go with the ported/polished aluminum heads. From what I've read, the aluminum heads are easier to work with and the disappate heat much better.
vader86
Well-known member
Thats what i get for not reading, yes a 383 should be able to get it. Sorry
But the 87 had the early AL heads, casting #128. They are not the later D-port 113 heads, and dont have their potential. So for that power goal he'd still need to go aftermarket.
But the 87 had the early AL heads, casting #128. They are not the later D-port 113 heads, and dont have their potential. So for that power goal he'd still need to go aftermarket.
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vetteguy216
Guest
Vader
With that combo what kind of power band would I expect to be seeing? I would like to use the the car all around (street, road racing, and drag racing
) My car will never be driven every day though.
With that combo what kind of power band would I expect to be seeing? I would like to use the the car all around (street, road racing, and drag racing
) My car will never be driven every day though.
vader86
Well-known member
By virtue of the TPI's long runners and the extra cubes, it should have immense low-end torque, so you might have to go easy on the throttle from a stop, otherwise it shouldnt have so much lope that accessories wont work and should be fairly streetable.
The power band will still have a big drop at high rpms because the TPI-style setup cant efficiently feed the motor, at like 5000-5500 rpm+ you should definitely notice a wall. The runners are just too long, which is why id rather do a Superram plenum/runners. Theirs are much shorter so the engine doesnt hit a wall at high rpms.
The power band will still have a big drop at high rpms because the TPI-style setup cant efficiently feed the motor, at like 5000-5500 rpm+ you should definitely notice a wall. The runners are just too long, which is why id rather do a Superram plenum/runners. Theirs are much shorter so the engine doesnt hit a wall at high rpms.
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vetteguy216
Guest
If I eventually went to the SR upper and runners after I had already built my motor using the TPIS set up would I have to change any thing.
vader86
Well-known member
Youd want a new chip/reprogram for the SR intake.
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vetteguy216
Guest
"In addition to porting the plenum and matching up the runners and base, youd definitely need new heads (AFR 190s) because the 87s heads arent the greatest. Full headers, 1.6 RR, and a cam bigger than the ZZ-X, 225/229 is what this guy used and it does have a bit of a lope."
Using this set up what Stall Speed would I need to get? And what is the stock stall speed?
Some of the parts I think I am coing to use are:
Scat 4130 ICR rods.
Scat 9000 sieries nodular crank.
JE dished pistons.
Using this set up what Stall Speed would I need to get? And what is the stock stall speed?
Some of the parts I think I am coing to use are:
Scat 4130 ICR rods.
Scat 9000 sieries nodular crank.
JE dished pistons.
Mad-Mic
Gone but not forgotten
stock stall speed is only 1600 rpm. she's a dog to get out of the hole till she hits 3000 rpm. more than likely you got a 2.59 rear gear also.
vader86
Well-known member
After all your mods are done, id dyno the car and try to pick a stall speed 500-1000rpm below your peak torque rpm.
But speaking from what ive read about others' setups, probably 2400-2600 should be just fine for a streetable car, and id go down to 3.07 rear gear in a Dana 44 carrier. With that much torque, a D44 is a must. Going to a lower gear than 3.07 with the TPI is a waste.
But speaking from what ive read about others' setups, probably 2400-2600 should be just fine for a streetable car, and id go down to 3.07 rear gear in a Dana 44 carrier. With that much torque, a D44 is a must. Going to a lower gear than 3.07 with the TPI is a waste.
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Ls1smlblck
Guest
Also with running a high stall, install a good trans cooler. Stalls make the tranny run warmer. Which I all ways recommend w/ or w/ out a stall.....
But getting back to my original Q, from what I've read there's only a few things I can do before a new chip is needed.....
But getting back to my original Q, from what I've read there's only a few things I can do before a new chip is needed.....
vader86
Well-known member
an intake or cam change would require changing the chip
like going from TPI to miniram or superram
just modding the TPI with porting, new base or runners wouldnt require a chip change, but it would be beneficial
like going from TPI to miniram or superram
just modding the TPI with porting, new base or runners wouldnt require a chip change, but it would be beneficial
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vetteguy216
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Thanks for the info vader
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