96' CE Wont start, HELP !!

[billet 00]

this is for my fathers CE. he had a bad alternator kill his old battery. we got a new alternator and he got a Optima red top battery. everything was fine, charging 14 volts. today he turned key and dash lit up like normal but when he went to crank the engine he heard a "pop". we figured it was a fuse. now, i dont know much about vettes but the only fuses i can find are the 2 small blocks under the hood and the large block on the passenger side dash. we checked all of those fuses ( visually and electronically ) they were fine. when you turn the key to the "on" position you get nothing, no power anywhere, same when you are cranking it...nothing lights up as if there were no battery. we checked the terminals from the battery, they have 12 volts. there is a "ticking" noise comming from under the dash near the fuse block that we dont know what it is. it ticks with no key in the car. we are stumped. if you need any more information please let me know. any help would be great !!

 

[Skant]

Check the terminals and the battery cabling at the terminals. It is possible to have a corroded or poor connection that reads the full voltage across it but can not provide the big amps sucked down by the starter motor. (It's like having the battery hooked up to the car with a telephone cord... it will read full voltage, but it can't pass the current)

The terminal connectors or the connectors splicing into the battery cable may be corroded or otherwise wrecked.

The pop you heard may have been arcing inside the terminal connectors.

Try the other power functions in the car and see what works and what doesn't. In particular, try the power windows and the headlights since these also draw big amps (though not nearly as big as the starter). If the connectors are bad, this may provide further clues.

Also, the connectors on the other ends of the battery cables can have the same problem. But this is less common since they aren't near the battery (which expells corosive gases).

- Skant

 

[billet 00]

wont start

thanks for the help. we checked the cables and they were in good visible condition. we got good voltage from the cables. We dont get any power at ALL. nothing works....its just like the car has no battery at all, nothing clicks when you try to start it, nothing. i dunno....i want to say the ignition switch totally broke but that dosnt explain the "pop" noise or the weirtd ticking that is comming from the interior fuse box that still is ticking, ( 2 days later ) ..... could it be a breaker?

 

[RubyDropTop]

Infamous ticking....

I know all too well the "ticking" noise that you are describing. It drives you nuts because you don't know exactly what it is.

I have experienced the same ticking when my battery was dead. My car behaved in the same manner as yours, and it was a dead battery (it would take a charge, but it would not hold it).

Is it possible that you received a defective battery or something within the system has placed an excessive draw on it?

Once I replaced my battery (A/C Delco correct replacement) I no longer had these issues. Since the car is stored during the Winter months, I also hook the battery up to a trickle charger. With the number of onboard computers that these cars have, they will drain a battery rather quickly if left to sit and not charged.

 

[SPANISHVETTS]

In the battery compartment you have several fusible links. If the battery is Ok you probably have one of these blown. I have never been into the electrics of a 96 so I will not speculate as to which one it is.
Either C4C5specialist or Vigman will be able to pinpoint the culprit quicker than you can say CORVETTE ACTION CENTER is the best.

 

[vigman]

Pop goes the link

By the battery compartment there is a junction block with a gaggle of red wires going to it.

Grab you test light .. see if that's hott

On the red wires you will find a black rubber ( or hard plastic ) spacer.. this is the join point for the fusible link... next there is some fl exly re d wire & another black Do-hickey ( antoher technical term ) the flexy wire is the fusible link.... it is 4 gauges smaller then the circut it is designed to protect... when they go ( from a short ) tthey POP! ( more like a SNAP ) So I would start my search there...post your findings.



Vig!

 

[billet 00]

hot test

thanks for the help guys....i just got back from testing every wire i could possible find near the battery and the 2 fuse blocks. they all have power with the key off....this tells me the battery is ok and no fuses are blown....ok weird part, i turn the key to "on" position....i get nothing comming from hot terminal...its weird because i can put my tester on the unused top post and it lights up but i put it on the battery cable comming from the side hot post and i get nothing...is this normal? i also noticed that the battery cable goes straight to the starter...wouldnt a bad silenoid stop any power from flowing to everything?...we are starting to think its the starter...

 

[SPANISHVETTS]

they all have power with the key off....this tells me the battery is ok and no fuses are blown...

Just because the Battery checks good with the key off does not mean it is good. What reading do you get on the top post with the key on?

Where are you putting the test probe? On the cable at the battery, the side connector, or at some other point on the battery cable? Test the voltage at the screw on the side terminal. If the reading on the side terminal is lower than it is on the top post your battery could have an open internal connection.

The easiest thing to do would be to swap the battery with one that is known to be working.

No a bad solenoid would not cause your problem unless is has shorted out and burnt the + battery cable in two, same goes for the starter. If this were the case you would have smoke and smell to go with it.

Keep an open mind and do not start blaming the hardest to replace or most expensive component to be at fault. I am willing to bet that you either have a bad fuse link, bad battery cable, or corroded connection.

Do not forget the ground side of the circuit. Corroded or broken ground connections are responsible for more than their fair share of problems in our plastic cars.

Follow this thread to see just how much havoc a bad fuse link can cause. http://corvetteactioncenter.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20614&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

 

[vigman]

I disagree it's the starter

So I tried to post this yesterday and my computer was not behavin'.

OOPS there is no terminal block on a 93 ( and I assume on up) SORRY!


From the 93 book... and I assume the 96 is SIMILAR.

From the alternator there are 2 wires
BATT a big red line with a fusible link and another red wire S with yet another link.. this isolates the ALT from the battery system.
These links are refered to Links A & B

These 2 lines( Links ) tie into the TOP of the fuse block

From the battery there ( as you noted ) a BIG GORILLA line ( red ) which goes to the solenoid.. for starter power ONLY, and also off the batt line a smaller red wire going to the fuse block#1 & #2..

All this joins into the under hood fuse block #1
( on a 93 ) which has the ECM fuse, fuel pump fuse, ABS/ASR fuse, AC, rear window defroster, Ignition fuse ( 2 of em 60 amp BIG BOYS) and the brake hydraulic fuse.

AGAIN ON A 93

The under hood fuse block #1 is located under the cruise servo, rear of the battery( but not behind it) on the drivers side of the firewall... mounted between ALMOST between the door hinges.

#2 is mounted on the inside of the fender well ( on the back side twds firewall ) which has all your lighting stuff on it. BUT it also has cooling fans, headlight motors secondary cooling fan, air pump fuse, exterior lighting and power accy's.

But that FEEDS the instrument panel fuse block ( I believe the fuse panel by the passenger side of the car... on the side of the dash) See if the LCD fuse is HOT!

Do your headlights work?

So when you replaced the ALT... did you get a Pep Boys ( PLUEEZE say NO!)

But if you did... remove the positive wire(s) from the battery and check the center stud on the alt to see if it hits ground.. the plastic insulator is made of the wrong material.. and when it gets HOT is deforms slightly.. causing bad things to make contact!


So let us know....


Vig!

 

[vigman]

Re read your post

If EITHER is true

a) A link is barely hanging on you would get that condition.

b) The Batt cannot supply enough current to keep the load fed.


SO

Make SURE the battery is FULLY CHARGED or

Jump it. with a small portable battery pack ( Mighty Mite ).. do not let a cheeapo charger sit on it.



Vig!

 

[RubyDropTop]

vigman, what is your opinion on trickle chargers? Are you opposed to them for Winter storage purposes? Just curious.

 

[vigman]

Trickle chargers are cool

The BIG chargers have to much AC sitting on the output.. and no filter or regulation circutry on them... thats why the ECM's go BONGO on a weak battery and a gorilla charger.


Vig!

 

[billet 00]

trying another battery was the first thing we did, it did the same thing. i get the same 11.9-12 volts from the top post as i do the side post. the battery is fine. the cables didnt appear corroded at all but we cleaned the ends of them anyway. which wire has the fuseable link? is it a hot from the ignition switch to the main power post on starter or the purple from the ignition switch.

 

[vigman]

The 93 only has 2 links in that circut

for the Alt as described before.
The Purple has no link in it.

Did you locate fuse block #1? I'll bet you will find your problem in there.... IF the 93 is laid out like a 96...


Vig!

 

[harry d]

1996 CE won`t start

Hello Billet 00,
If you don`t have any function in the vehicle at all, it sounds like you`ve got a bad body control module. I had the same problem happen to me on my `95 LT-1 coupe. Purchase a remanufactured Delco module and install it yourself or have the car towed to the dealer and have them replace it. Either way you`re looking at approx 425-500 dollars for the part itself and whatever the labor charge is if you elect to have the dealer do it.
If you decide to replace it yourself, you will have to program the PASS-KEYS to the new module before the car will start. You`ll have to take it to the dealer anyway so the VIN info and the current vehicle mileage can be downloaded into the EEPROM of the new module. Do not drive over 100 miles before this is done otherwise it will be impossible for the dealer to input this info.
Good luck!

 

[vigman]

Ok here's the drill ( 93 Ign line)

Assuming you have POWER to the ignition switch ( which are the TWO red lines ) going to the Ign switch on pins B & D ( each is their OWN SEPERATE 60 amp feed which join internally in the switch)

Relay COIL control Low currrent .5 gauge wire

The start line ( off the ignition switch ) One of the lines ( the yellow splits in the harness) is the yellow line on pin A.. that goes to the fuse panel on the side of the instrument panel.

labeled CRANK P/N Clutch fuse 5 amp.. if you turn the key to start.. that will be HOT reguardless what the vats is doing.. SO far so good?

The Yellow wire ( on the other side of the fuse now turns Purple) and goes to one side of the clutch switch.

The OTHER side of the clutch switch goes BACK to a yellow color wire.. to pin 86 of the starter enable relay ( one side of coil )


The other side of the coil (pin 85) Is a black & yellow wire... which comes from the CCM ( computer under the dash) When the VATS is cool that line goes to ground and the relay goes CLICK energizing the coil.


Starter line POWER

Remember the Yellow line on pin A
this line ALSO goes down to the contact of the starter enable relay Pin 30..

The relay is wired NORMALLY OPEN! so the relay MUST energize to CRANK the car.

And the last line on the relay is pin 87 which is the BIG purple line... home run to the starter solenoid.

Location of starter enable relay
Beneath left hand side of dash ( drivers) left of steering column.

There are a gaggle of relays under there find the one with 2 yellows ( 1 big ,one small) a small Black Yellow & the BIG purple.


You may test if the car cranks by jumping the BIG yellow & the Big purple...but that WILL NOT IMPLY THE ECM&CCM are happy.



Vig!

 

[vigman]

BTW

You NEED to get the dash working to help you solve this puzzle..it can give you error codes.


I really believe you have a power feed problem.....

But internet car repairs are REALLY TOUGH!


Vig!