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Auto or Short-Throw Manual ?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Auriga
  • Start date Start date

Automatic or new short-throw manual ?

  • Automatic

    Votes: 51 29.3%
  • Short-throw Manual

    Votes: 123 70.7%

  • Total voters
    174
complexity--yes

I agree with you, Andy.

Simpler is always cheaper to procure and maintain. People should recongnize that technology comes at a price.
 
I don't even like ABS!!!
 
Only had the manual sticks before. Makes me feel like im part of the car, than just pushing the pedal.
 
If they ever get around to installing a 5 or 6 speed auto, then I might consider the auto box.
If they ever go to a sequential manual trans with or without paddle shifters, I'm there!!!!
 
I'm having a tough time with this decision.

The last 6 Vettes I've owned all had 4-speed or 6 speeds, but I'm seriously thinking of ordering my C6 with an automatic....now, before I put on my flame suit, let me add this. Last summer I've had several occassions where my left calf muscle just tightened up on me while driving the Z06. Doc says it's a normal side effect of the meds I'm taking. Another consideration is a off/on lower back pain that extends down my left leg.....so, I'm looking at the convenience of an automatic. BUT, I've always felt a sports car must be a manual, and the improved short throw of the 6 speed along with the Z51 performance handling package makes me lean towards the MN6 option.

Zippy :confused :confused
 
It's gotta' be a manual...Out of 22 'vettes I've owned, only two have been autos...my current '59 has Powerglide and an '84 I bought and sold cuz it was a good deal and I made money on it...

b
 
here is a news article from TVR ..this company is working with TVR to install these transmissions on their cars..and even retrofit existing customers cars..

In many ways the TVR is very much like our Corvettes...and the company is working to retrofit this on Tremec T56's trannys like what is in our cars..

If its real..its pretty cool..check out the link at the bottom of this post..

-------------------------------------

The mechanism does not use electronics, hydraulics, clutches or friction drives of any kind The system is passive, self contained and brilliant in its simplicity..

In fact, it only applies to the gear selection mechanism so the majority of a gearbox can remain unchanged.

This transmission will work just like any ordinary gearbox except with no need to use the clutch between ratios. The only difference is it uses fewer components, it will be cheaper to build and last longer. Also driven by a processor it will work as an automatic.

Zeroshift has the potential to revolutionise automotive transmissions to the point where putting our necks on the line here, its reasonable to expect that in 10 years every car will be built with a gearbox operating on the zeroshift principle.

---------------------------------

Does this sound too good to be true? Since they say its cheaper to produce than the standard tranny? How much does a new tranny cost in the Z? Add in a core savings and its probably not big bucks?

What do you think? A few grand?

Here's the link: http://www.pistonheadstv.com/images/ZeroShift_RacecarEng_0204.pdf
 
There are limits to tradition

jazzlove said:
It sounds like a technological breakthrough for sure. The average person could probably move faster through the gears and achieve a faster time using this transmission.

But at least with me, thats not the point. I love to choose my gear, whether upshifting , downshifting, and especially cornering. It just adds to the joy of driving a high performance sports car. I even like it in city driving, but thats just me.:cool

Yeah, I love rowing the gears as much as anyone. But I'm not adverse to progress. I have a $5k Leica camera gathering dust because my Canon digital camera is a whole heck of alot easier to use--same creative control, but a whole lot hassle to get an image out. Bring on the new tranny!
 
Here's what Autoweek had to say about the new DSG system in the Audi TT:

"WE’VE SEEN THE FUTURE, AND IT IS good. Audi’s 2004 TT 3.2 quattro boasts V6 power (a TT first), revised suspension and subtle yet aggressive bodywork changes, which include a new front spoiler, rear wing and diffuser. When we got our hands on a test car, though, we went straight for the paddles.

Those steering-wheel-mounted gear selectors are connected to Audi’s Direct Shift Gearbox, the only transmission available with the V6. Europeans can specify a six-speed manual, but Audi says it has no plans to offer that option in America. With two concentric clutch discs and two input shafts, one inside the other (each shaft takes three gears), the DSG allows for simultaneous engagement of two gears, if only for a fraction of a second (AW, March 24, 2003). The two big advantages this gives over conventional single-clutch systems are uninterrupted power flow to the driven wheels and smoother shifts.

The DSG is without doubt the smoothest electrohydraulic transmission we’ve tested. Full automatic mode? Have no fear; there is no head-snapping jerkiness, no driveline shunt. Drive in anything approaching normal style and, chances are, you won’t be able to tell this is not a torque converter-equipped automatic.

Select manual mode via the center console-mounted gear lever and it is more of the same. Open the throttle and pull the right paddle (or tap the lever) to upshift, then stomp on the brakes as your left hand flicks down through the box: Brap, brap, brap. For the most part, the software does a good job matching engine revs to road speed, although you often feel a bit of mismatched engine braking when you grab second and first gears. But let the speed drop a little more before you select the low ratios and the action smooths out.

Our biggest disappointment with the DSG is in manual mode, when the computer auto-upshifts at redline. Since the engine develops its 250-hp peak at 6300 rpm—very near to the 6400-rpm rev limit—the software can beat you to the upshift punch when you try to achieve maximum power. Practically no time passes between 6300 and 6400 rpm, so you must be ultra-predictive with the right-hand paddle. We were also chagrined when we tried to activate launch control.

After several failed attempts, we discovered an amendment to the owner’s manual instructions: “Due to a production change, your TT 3.2 is not equipped with launch control.” Thank Audi North America (Euro cars get launch control), its lawyers and product planners for mitigating your fun.

That omission aside, the TT 3.2 quattro is not missing much. The torquey, narrow-angle V6 is the same VR engine used in Volkswagen’s R32 and Porsche’s entry-level Cayenne, and churns out 236 lb-ft at 2800 to 3200 rpm. ...."

There's more but not about the DSG. I had a 3 hour operation last summer on my right arm (Carpal and Ulnar relocation). It's a bit better now, but I doubt it will ever be the same. My C6 will be a Z51 6 sp manual, but by the time the C7 rolls around with a DSG(?), my shifter slamming days might be over.
 
Zeroshift is the latest and greatest ...

Here's the link..check it out..

Check out this website and spend some time reading and looking..

This is without a doubt one of the coolest mods..

I'm planning to do this.

http://www.zeroshift.com/#

I've put my name on their list for installs starting in the USA as 2006 approaches..

~40% less weight on the modified Tremec T56 and a 2 second reduction in zero to 100mph times for the TVR recently tested..with just this mod added..

Stock the 2002 Z06 ran motor trend testing in about 9.9 seconds..add in zeroshift to the equation your at 8 seconds..or 8.5 depending on launch..Add in a hundred or so hp with a cam/heads and cam/and 3.73 or 4.10 gears and you could be at the level of 6.3 that the McClaren F1 has for a production car record...

Corvette/Mustang/Viper applications in prototype form right now..with aftermarket installations here in the United States beginning 2006 at zeroshift authorized dealers and will come with a warranty to boot..This product if it proves what I think it will prove out this summer in the production TVR's this summer..We've got a winner on our hands..

still with a stickshift..just don't need the clutch or have any power interuptions during upshifts..Thats even

better than even the DSG of Porsche/Audi

This Zeroshift is planned for release in production cars starting with TVR..

You still have a clutch for 1st gear but after that..its full on power up shifts and perfect downshifts everytime!
 
Sorry to hear about your injury Longtimer..


This might just be an exciting alternative that you can consider for your C6 Z51 six speed..

I'm pretty pumped about the early reports on it..and should have more information about its success or failure later on this summer..

Phil James of Zeroshift is retrofitting a C5 Convertible six speed this summer over in England so the information should be insightful.
 
While I've always been a stick guy, especially in any performance car, but I have grown to like the 'new' automatics. This zeroShift gizmo sounds great!

I recently tested an M-5 and know my son's 540i. My choice would be the 540i with boosted power, simply for the tranny. As I have found with flying, some automation frees the mind or better flying (driving), as I can spend more brain seconds analyzing other essentials. The new 7 series has been refined and is not necessarily a step forward, WRT shifting, but the bump shift is great! I love the heart of the car which revs to redline, again and again, w/o breaking. I also love the variety of gears with the 6-speed automatic. The car screams off the line and hums quietly at 140+.

Computers CAN be a help, or an unnecessary complication, prone to problems. Design, testing, refinement and execution of the product determines. :w
 
The fun is in the STICK.


ENJOY THE RIDE.:D
 
I justhate to agree with JB, but five years from now, certainly in ten years, the clutch pedal as we know it will be gone.

It already is in every Formula One car, and won't ever be coming back. Our technology follows theirs, not Nascar's (which actually follows ours).

That's just the way it is. There is nothing wrong with that -- it makes left foot braking much easier and stone simple, for example. That, in turn, just makes you a better (and faster) driver.

JB has been a proponent of sequential shifters for a long time, probably too long.

The problem with the early systems (BMW M3 and the Ferraris) was that they were just not that well done. BMW is now on it's third generation (is it 3rd or 4th) system, and has finally gotten it to where it will shift as well as an accomplished stick driver can -- your head no longer snaps as the car jerks into each gear. Not having driven a Ferrari or a Maserati with one, I do read the reviews and the complaints on their systems are also still there.

Here the reviews for Maserati and BMW's new M5 from this month's Car and Driver:

"The starting point for the modern GranSport is the Coupé Cambiocorsa, which appeared in its current form, with a 4.2-liter V-8 engine and a transaxle incorporating a paddle-shift automated six-speed manual transmission, in 2002... Every successive version of the Cambiocorsa electrohydraulic shift system is a little bit better than the previous one. Maserati says the GranSport has specially developed software that makes shifting in sport mode 35 percent faster than before. We found that admirable—and not as brutal as the Ferrari's F1 shift..."


"Aside from the new engine there is a new transmission—the third generation of BMW's sequential manual gearbox (SMG)—that takes lessons learned from Formula 1 and applies them to the M5... Although this latest SMG is faster and smoother than ever, a skilled driver could achieve less jerky shifts. You may wonder why there's no conventional manual. It has to do with the way the gears are arranged in the tranny casing. First and second gears, which experience the most abuse and stress, find themselves nestled in the strongest parts of the casing to withstand the violently quick shifts that the SMG can make. The rest of the seven gears are arranged to follow the same logic. If the M5 had a normal shifter, its pattern would be a maze so intricate that even the smartest rats lured by the best cheese would have trouble figuring it out. Since the shifts are governed by electronics, there are different settings that alter shift speed and clutch slip. There's also a fully automatic mode. On the other side of the spectrum is the entertaining launch-control function that allows for maximum acceleration with minimal effort. To trigger launch control, shut off stability control, set the gearbox for the fastest shifts, push the shifter forward, and floor the throttle. What's odd is that you don't need to hold down the brake pedal. When the engine revs rise to 4000 rpm, release the shifter and keep the accelerator pedal floored. Gearchanges are head-bangingly fast and at the perfect rpm, as the program knows exactly when to shift. If there's enough space, the M5 will run to an indicated 168 mph..."


I've always strived to shift so smoothly that the passenger can't tell we've shifted -- up or down. Most of the time I hit the mark, sometimes I don't, but I certainly average better than the BMW system. Of course when I'm playing Pizzonia in the BMW Williams, the shifts are a bit more aggressive, and a bit of the smoothness goes away, but it's never to the point of whiplash like the 1st generation BMW system (or I guess the 3rd from what the M5 review says).

This new-fangled dual clutch thing may be just the ticket that this technology needed. Two clutches, one disengaging while the other is engaging. Much smoother than the earlier systems I would suspect.

I, quite frankly, can't wait for it to come out on the Corvette -- no more need to flip back and forth with your left foot from brake to clutch and back while settling the suspension with the throttle.

It's a good thing, as the incarcerated lady would say.

Cheers!
 
EHS said:
I justhate to agree with JB, but five years from now, certainly in ten years, the clutch pedal as we know it will be gone.



Cheers!
:L


Happy holidays and thanks for the laughs..

It really is cool technology thats being brought to the marketplace. We as enthusiasts are lucky as hell to be able to enjoy it..


For some unknown reason I always imagined if we talked about it on the various forums long enough...and got enough support for it one day the Corvette team might just make Sequential shift manual transmissions available..

Not just yet but maybe one day....

Would be cool if one day the C6 Z06 with 500 hp was made available with either a "zeroshift or DSG " tranny..

Consistant perfection is why I am so enamored with this technology..

Happy holidays guys...I think Santa brought us a present early even if its just a look see at the new C6 Z06..

What a car!!!!



JB
 
Sorry, but I would have to say I would get the auto only because of the traffic here in LA. A manual would be horrible. I commute about 50 miles a day to and from work. Going to work is not the problem, I would love a manual, but coming back home is the problem. The traffic really sucks and having a manual would not be fun. That is why I have automatics. It is enough dealing with all of the darn traffic.
 
mad47 said:
What's an "automatic" ? :Steer :Steer :cool

What he said... If you ain't row'n, you ain't drive'n! :D
 
danl72 said:
Sorry, but I would have to say I would get the auto only because of the traffic here in LA. A manual would be horrible. I commute about 50 miles a day to and from work. Going to work is not the problem, I would love a manual, but coming back home is the problem. The traffic really sucks and having a manual would not be fun. That is why I have automatics. It is enough dealing with all of the darn traffic.

Dan, I hear ya! Manhattan traffic is a pia too...

The automatic is a great way to go when you have urban crawl to deal with.

JMO...and thats why I want dual clutch sequential shift technology for my next corvette...(otherwise its keep this ride and keep buying automatic daily drivers)

The A6 coming in 2006 is tempting but I believe 2008 GM will pop for the dual clutch sequential solution. (and still offer six speed manuals for the die hards)
 

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