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Battery Discharge

  • Thread starter Thread starter bullgunner
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bullgunner

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just bought a brand new C6 vert - I'm losing the battery, almost total dischargei, if I let it sit more than two days at a time. I took it back one time already and they claimed it was a loose battery post connection (the negative terminal). Now, with less than a thousand miles on it I continue to have the problem.

Any thoughts on what might be causing it? I have checked every light and every switch. It is off when I leave it.

Any thoughts on what I should do next? Can the dealer locate it? Anyone else have the problem?

Thanks in advance for any help you might offer.
 
bullgunner said:
just bought a brand new C6 vert - I'm losing the battery, almost total dischargei, if I let it sit more than two days at a time. I took it back one time already and they claimed it was a loose battery post connection (the negative terminal). Now, with less than a thousand miles on it I continue to have the problem.

Any thoughts on what might be causing it? I have checked every light and every switch. It is off when I leave it.

Any thoughts on what I should do next? Can the dealer locate it? Anyone else have the problem?

Thanks in advance for any help you might offer.
you must charge the battery to full voltage not just jump start because the altenator will not fully charge a dead battery.
 
Hi there
There is much that can cause a dead battery in C6, but first, the owners manual must be read and no aftermarket accessories must be confirmed.
I have seen alot of different things cause a dead battery on c6, so the first thing is to test the battery accurately.
Allthebest, c4c5
 
Problem may be solved!

Returned to the dealer again today - explained that the battery was dead on the showroom floor when the car was delivered. They were extremely polite and told me they wished I had told them that when I brought it back the first time. They replaced the battery with a new one and told me my troubloes are done. So far, so good!

Ed Morse Sawgrass Cevrolet is the dealer and they have been great! I hope the discharge problem has ended. Will keep you posted if not. BTW - they had three new C6's there...geez they are beautiful.

Before going I'd like to thank you who responded to my plight and have given advice...it is very much appreciated.
 
Hi. I had the problem, and seem to have it solved. There is an excellent, long thread on file in CAC on dead battery syndrome, and you can draw your own conclusions, however I personally believe that the problem is NOT failure to place firmly in reverse before exiting. Several of us appear to have confirmed that.

I store mine for a week or two at a time in Winter, and it can be quite cold here in Boston. After a first winter containing two failures, and a summer without any problem at all, followed these past three months by three more failures, I did enough research on the web to do my own diagnosis. While any of the common reasons for failure may still be the cause in unique circumstance, I think the combination of cold weather and infrequent starts to an OEM battery that is 30 to 50 milliamps short of the true ,needed off-cycle capacity is eventually going to fail.

Theoretically, all newer vehicles have a constant draw of 20-35 milliamps, for such things as clock, security, etc. The C6 OEM battery needs is not capable of delivering a long, slow discharge without re-charging every few days. It should have been spec'd for 50-60 milliamp constant discharge. Keep in mind everything in the C6 is electric, including the Fob.... If you keep the fob within 25 feet of the door it is drawing at an even higher rate.

One of our CAC colleagues recommeded a gel battery by Optima, and I checked the spec and info from the manufacturer. It is carried by Sears (but may not always be in stock.) I have had it in for a month and no problem despite some very cold weather. One might say, jeez, its a new frickin' battery. It ought to crank! Yea, but batteries lose efficiency right from their creation on forward to death. Death comes quickly even to a battery of only 10 months age if it is drawing beyond capacity. Jumping a battery (fast charge) repeatedly ages the battery fast.

A trickle charger helps, but in my case a very slow (and therefore better) trickle charge got my old battery up to about 11 amps after a solid WEEK of charging! I think this means the old/original battery is cooked! So I bought the Optima with larger cranking and retention capacity- a so-called deep cycle battery that antique car buffs use as they often go unstarted for a month at a time.

I'll attempt to get the oroginal battery pro-rated to get some cash back, but I'm not about to mess up a new vette (my third) for the price of even an expensive battery ($135). It isn't worth the aggravation, the wear on related parts, or the inability to drive this gem on the occasional dry day without snow here in Boston.

It is a call you'll have to make. Good luck on your own research. Just keep in mind that the CAC as a collected whole knows more about the Corvette than Chevy! At least in actual driving experience if not in build technology. They will download info at your next service.... but the cause sure as hell ain't failure to place in reverse!

philzer
 
Philzer -

What a nice response!

Even though I believe my problems are done I will probably take your advice and get an Optima at the next sign of trouble. What size battery did you use?

If they have one at Sears I might just take the car over Saturday and have them put one in....I'm really tired of charging to get started.

Thanks for the hint on the "Magic Fob." Mine was stored about ten feet from the car - but not after reading your response.

And again to all of you - many thanks for your thoughtful responses.

Greatly appreciated!

bullgunner
 
Bullgunner:
Optima calls it the Red Top model, but I do not recall its alpha-based size, but I think it is an F. NO ONE but Sears knew the battery size for C6's.

I'm happy to help, but please note that you should try to isolate your specific problem, as it may of course be something other than the problem I encountered, and I'd hate to have you waste $135 !!! Maybe it is the proximity of the Fob that tipped your electrical draw over the top....

Best,
Philzer
 
Hi there,
There are a few facts that must be mentioned here.
First, actual acceptable draw is calculated by taking the reserve capacity of the battery, at 110, and dividing by 4. That means that the actual system draw of a c6 should only be 27.5 milliamps, NOT ANY MORE>
Ok, so if you have a draw more than that, then there is a problem that must be accurately diagnosed.
The battery as it stands will support that from the factory because truthfully, there is only about a 17-20 milliamp draw from a c6 in good working order.
So, if you do not perform accurate diagnostics for a battery issue that could be a draw problem, even your new battery will develop problems, and having a trickle charger hooked up is only masking the problem.
The battery is only engineered to support the car electrical system for 20 days without starting. That is why you disconnect the negative battery terminal if it sits for over that amount of time.
So, if it sits for months, without being started or disconnected, the battery will be dead.
Allthebest, c4c5:bang
 
Milliamp draw: spec vs. reality?

c4c5specialist:
This is new information I wish I had earlier this year. Thanks, and bullgunner should note this BEFORE he goes out and buys a new battery like I did. It took a long time to get the data I had, but yours was a missing piece. I appreciate your expertise.

But I now have a new question. You said "actual acceptable draw is calculated by taking the reserve capacity of the battery, at 110, and dividing by 4. That means that the actual system draw of a c6 should only be 27.5 milliamps, NOT ANY MORE>"

It appears that you assume Chevy has accurately calculated the routine draw, and has spec'd a battery with that capability. Of course, if it draws more there is likley another fault in the electrical system, which I will now be sure to request diagnosis of.... But others have told me that the REAL WORLD draw is above the spec of the battery. Since we program various activities (light delays, etc) that have a cumulative effect, and that temperature effects cranking power, could it be that Chevy didn't leave enough margin for individual cirsumstantial variance?

You are undoubtedly correct that we must have the electricals assessed as there may be a flaw that is masked by my new battery. On the other hand, would you agree that a flaw creating a 50 milliamp draw can be trumped with a battery that can handle a 60+ milliamp draw for up to 20 days? Gee, at one point I couldn't get the original battery, with only five jumps, to hold a charge for a mere two days!

I really appreciate your input here. I am not trying to be difficult, but am trying to learn and be well armed when I seek my pro-rata rebate from my dealer.

Please respond! and thanks again.

philzer
 
HI there,
The fact that the new architecture of this electrical system make it so that there is actually less draw then the older c5, which could have as high as 25 milliamps for at least 15 mins.
GMLAN makes the talking between modules much more efficient and accurate, so that actually reduces awake time of modules, and the draw associated with electrical usage.
All batteries are over engineered for automotive applications. NOT BY MUCH, but still over the draw resistance needed.
However, things like the transmitter being too close to the car, will 'wake up' the remote control door lock receiver and the body control module, therefore creating a 178 milliamp draw.
If that happens over a few days, seeing the module wake up and go to sleep, it will kill the battery in short order.
There is much more to c6 electrical systems or c5 for that matter, to state in a simple post.
MANY VARIABLES must be considered, including soundness of the battery itself and being tested accurately with our tool, J-42000.
If you do not allow your dealership to accurately diagnose the condition and you put a battery in your car of your own decision, how can you expect a rebate, when you didnt allow proper diagnosis of the problem?? And, did the real world advice include someone who was accurately trained on c6 electrical systems??
Allthebest, c4c5:bang
 
c4c5specialist said:
However, things like the transmitter being too close to the car, will 'wake up' the remote control door lock receiver and the body control module, therefore creating a 178 milliamp draw.

So, how far should the remote be from the car when the car is parked for the night?
 
There is no clear cut guidelines for this.
Based on where your garage is located, how many walls in between and how thick they are.
I suggest to my customers that they place the transmitters at the opposite end of the house from where the car is.
This may be excessive, but it will assure that there is no reception of the signal from the fob.
Allthebest, c4c5
 
Milliamps

C4C5specialist:
Your understanding of this matter is obviously extensive and terrific. Thanks so much for the detailed responses, and you are right: I should have just taken it to the dealer.

And I am appreciative of your frequent postings to questions that arise. Great sign-off, too. Best to you and your beautiful daughter.

Philzer
 
It Started!

After sitting since got the new battery on Tuesday - it started with no problems.

I am heeding the advice of moving the fobs to the other end of the house....but it actually fired up with no problem.

It's nice to have a car that works like it's supposed to after stretching the budget (and my wife's mind) to get it.

Thanks to all,

bullgunner
 
So far so good for me too...

bullgunner said:
It Started!

After sitting since got the new battery on Tuesday - it started with no problems.

I am heeding the advice of moving the fobs to the other end of the house....but it actually fired up with no problem.

It's nice to have a car that works like it's supposed to after stretching the budget (and my wife's mind) to get it.

Thanks to all,

bullgunner

I think we can be encouraged. I've had my 2005 C6 for 2 days now, stored in the garage, but it's been down in the teens and 20's overnight last couple of days. It has started up each day with no problems. I make sure I've got the stick in reverse, and I keep the fobs well inside the house away from the garage. Now, if that damn red blinking theft deterrent light would stay off, I could save even more 'lectricity :eyerole.
 
Hi there,
That LED is a 1 milliamp draw, fluctuating.
The reserve capacity, plus the fact that it is NOT constant, allow that drain without hurting battery performance.
Allthebest, c4c5:bang
 
Just got back this morning from Brazil. I was gone for eight days.

It started with no problem!

Hooray!

Thanks to all of you for your help.

bullgunner
 
I thought I was OK: Dead Battery Syndrome

bullgunner said:
just bought a brand new C6 vert - I'm losing the battery, almost total dischargei, if I let it sit more than two days at a time. I took it back one time already and they claimed it was a loose battery post connection (the negative terminal). Now, with less than a thousand miles on it I continue to have the problem.

Any thoughts on what might be causing it? I have checked every light and every switch. It is off when I leave it.

Any thoughts on what I should do next? Can the dealer locate it? Anyone else have the problem?

Thanks in advance for any help you might offer.

Took delivery of a 2005 C6 coupe on March 15, 2006. I'm familiar with the Dead Battery Syndrome (DSB) posts regarding C6s so I've been careful to secure the vehicle properly after use. Well, I wanted to take a cruise last evening, went out to the garage and noticed the little red blinky light no blinky. Door no worky. Battery no worky. Damn.:confused Haven't done anything different to shut down the car than I have since March, i.e car is in reverse, fobs stored well away from the garage, etc etc etc. This sucks. You shouldn't have to do a pilot checklist to turn off a damn car. Anyway, my son is into low riders and fortunately has a big arse battery charger/jumper thingy. Now, I'm no technical wiz, so hooking up the jump unit to the battery caused me no little trepidation. First time I hit the start switch it made a clicking noise but wouldn't start. I then removed the jumper, shut everything down, and reconnected. This time she started.:upthumbs Wierd; frustrating; confusing; maddening!!!:mad

The only thing I can think of that's different is that I had the hood open after shutting down the car to check the oil and to put the bra on. Could having that damn hood light on for 10min be enough to blow the battery?@! If so, bad design Chevy.

Anyway, I've ordered the CTEK Automatic Battery Charger from AutoSport. Seems to get good reviews online:
http://www.autosportcatalog.com/index.cfm?fa=p&pid=3480&sc=3364

I'm willing to write this one off as my fault for having the hood open. But if it happens again, I guess it's a trip to the dealer. Or, buy the Optima battery that's been discussed here. Unfortunately, when I went to the Optima web site (http://www.optimabatteries.com/publish/optima/americas0/en/config/home.html) and did the vehicle search for a 2005 Corvette, it said it had no product for that vehicle. So, for you folks that have put in an Optima, exactly what part number of Optima battery are you buying?

Thanks in advances,
Dave
 
DBS? Consider EMF....

After 15 months of trial and error, and much help from CAC members, I believe my identical problem has been solved. Apparently I had a primary Engine Module Failure....

When I picked up my C6 in January 2005, there were several postings and several theoretically legitimate causes, including failure to put securely into reverse, faulty batteries, power-consuming features that were acting anomolously (poor quality control), cold weather impact, etc.

I tried to isolate my problem and got good help from several of you. I, too, purchased an Optima (from Sears who has the correct parts number) but after the sixth failure, I relented and brought it to the dealer for the third time. The first of two earnest efforts on the part of the dealer dealt with the liklihood that I screwed up with the shutdown process. The second was my first free oil change and a request to check out the reason for the problem. Nothing showed up, and I was then using the Optima.

The dealer requested I call the Chevy Road service line next time it occurred, and I did that three times. The road service is subcontracted, and each time it was at my home in the garage. This time and each more the vette would NOT start. Even with external power, the windows would get stuck in the down position. Weird.

So they put it on a ramp truck three times. I had resisted this in the past as I have little confidence in most of these services. The first time they came very close to ripping off the air dam in front, and secured the vehcile to the bed improperly. The second and third time I had a knowledgeable fellow who understood the nature of the car, and handled it accordingly. My fear of the laws of unintended consequences were well founded, and that was another reason I resisted bringing the vette to the dealer when it had only 3K miles on it. Too many cooks in the stew, all likely performing there own test drives....but after the sixth event, I felt I had no choice. c4c5specialist from CAC commented on my postings, and I finally gave in, convinced he was right: bring the damn thing in....once more.

They had it for a week, and could not isolate the problem. Gave it back to me, and shortly after faced the second flat-bed tow. By now the dealer was convinced that I wasn't making any errors in shutdowns. There was a conversation with the regional chevy engineer. He started at scratch with "do you know the shut-down procedure." Went through it all again. This time the dealer was 100% behind me, and started talking about replacing the vehcile altogether. It was in the shop three weeks. Altogether, in the late winter and sring of 2006, I did not have the vehicile available for about two months.

Then they performed a continous, multi-day (?) check and graphed the ECM at output from zero to 111 milliamps. Clearly the module was faulty, and would act up randomly.

New module: no problem in the past two months. I was fortunate to have a dealer who, when finally convinced it wasn't me ( and their staff was equally frustrated) and that Chevy absolutely had to step in The dealer got some suggestions, and the rest is history. I hope.

I've had three new vettes, C4,C5,C6, and this is the first real problem.

Good luck, and keep us posted. The worst thing is feeling as if you have a problem no one else has. CAC is a network that rivals Chevrolet's understanding of real world operating issues, at least for the first collective million miles we drive. Eventually, there data base catches up and the 'one in a thousand' problems show up, and different solutions are proposed until a final 'best practice' is settled upon.

Yea, I'd buy another in a New York minute.....

philzer




 
Philzer said:
After 15 months of trial and error, and much help from CAC members, I believe my identical problem has been solved. Apparently I had a primary Engine Module Failure....Yea, I'd buy another in a New York minute.....

philzer

Philzer, I REALLY appreciate your reply and the fantastic information! To be forewarned is to be forearmed. While my vette saleperson undertands I take care in shutting down the car, he also indicates all the dead battery problems they've seen have been due to "operator error." He's a straight shooter so I have no reason to disbelieve him. In any event, I guess time will tell. I just checked the little red blinky thingy and "IT'S ALIVE!" It's also been in the 90's the last few days with dew points in the 70's. Near 100 in the garage today when I got home; feels like a Florida swamp here in Wessconsin. But I digress....
 

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