Borg-Warner5-spd in a 71??

[tomtom72]

Hi all, I have a question. If you found a 71 LT-1 with a B-W 5 spd would you buy it? I know it is possible to do anything if you spend enough $, but what are the pitfalls of such a conversion? How would you know if it was done right? Could you reverse the swap if you wanted to, and what is the degree of difficulty? I am sorry if I am speaking out of turn, or in the wrong place. I am new here and don't want to do the wrong thing. Thanks for any help you can offer. tt72

 

[BeaterShark]

I wouldn't buy it or not buy it because of the tranny. Too many other variables would come into play as to if I would or would not buy a car.

I believe a BW 5 speed is the same as the Nash 5 speed right? If so, it's basically a straight swap and pretty hard not to be "done right" and is easily reversable.

I'm not sure what angle you are coming from. Do you have a car and want to swap in a tranny? Are you looking at buying a car with a BW 5 speed?

 

[tomtom72]

Thanks BeaterShark, I was speaking from the point of making a purchase of a 71 LT-1 that had been modified with that B-W 5 spd. I would like to return to the hobby of owning a vette after a long absence. Back when I had mine there was 4 spds or autos and that was it; alot has changed since the early 80's, and I am trying to catch up. As this car is in Ga. I would have to hire a surveyor, and I want to learn something about this 5 spd conversion before spending any $ to have someone look the car over.You know how it is when you're looking, it was an LT-1 and the price was in my range and then I saw 5 spd and thought it was a mistake. Thanks for the info. tt72

 

[Robin7TFour]

Tom, we have several CAC members in Georgia. i am sure if you ask nice someone could help you with the appraisal.

Robin

 

[tomtom72]

Hi Robin, thanks for the reply! I am ignorant about 5 spd trannies, I had a M-22 in my last & only vette. I have not kept up with all the tech advances, only cars that had 5's back in the 70's & early 80's were imports mostly. I have been reading through all the old posts to see if I can get a line on a B-W tranny, I did not even know that they replaced the Muncies in the later C3's! The car is being sold by a dealer in Ga.(American Sports Car Center), but from the pictures I think it is not on their lot. I need to satisfy myself that the car did not get cut up to put the 5 spd in it, plus I would like to learn about a B-W's reliability in this application. Gawd I miss my 72! Thank you for your suggestion. tt72

 

[BeaterShark]

First, I'd check if the BW is the same as the Doug Nash 5 speed. I think the Nash is a Super T-10 (BW??) with an extra gear. One thing to note about it is that 5'th gear is a 1:1 ratio (no OD). 1'st is pretty steep (3.27:1, I believe), so you usually want a numerically low rear gear. 3.08:1 is pretty close to ideal. The Nash trannys have lived well behind race motors.

I'd make sure it is NOT a Tremec 5 speed. At some point, also, I beleive Tremec bought BW (or a joint venture), so it is possible that the Tremec I'm referring to may actually be a BW. It's called the "T5" and was used in '80s Mustangs and F-body's. There is a version called the "World Class" that is ok if you are completely stock, but GM only put it in the 305 F-body's. The 350s were all autos due to the weak torque rating (300 lb/ft) of the T5. I'm not really sure how to tell this, but find out what exactly the tranny is and do your research. It is also possible to put a Mustang World Class tranny in a GM car, but it would require a 1/2" spacer between the bell housing and tranny, still without cutting the x-member.

Having said that, I'd still buy a car with a World Class T5, but I'd definately make sure the owner knew how weak they are and use this as a bargaining point. I'd also be prepared to rebuild the tranny every other year or so. The most complaints I've heard about these are 3'rd gear, mostly by racers who power shift.

 

[tomtom72]

Hi Beater shark, Thank you for the info. I get confused with the B&W and the Tremac T-5 references I've been finding in all the past threads in the C3 section. It seems to be my interpretation that the T-5 is different than a B&W 5spd, I think??? I only really care about finding out if the swap was done with out cutting up the car! I'm an old dog and I loved my M-22, and if no cutting was done on the car I would put a M-22 back in it in a skinny minute! MY 72 LT-1 had 3:55's & a 22 and the cruse rpm's were quite acceptable in 4th. I guess I will just call this dealer and try to find out what was done and how it was done.I sent them an e-mail, but they never answered me. It seems most of the dealers I've talked to lately know very little about the cars they are selling beyond it looks nice and has no body or interrior damage. Thank you for the help. tt72

 

[78SilvAnniv]

Tom, we have several CAC members in Georgia. i am sure if you ask nice someone could help you with the appraisal.

Robin

My husband Kenny is standing behind me, waving his hand in the air, and shouting "Me! Pick me! I can be a surveyor!"

We'd be happy to take a look at this vette for you. Hopefully it is close to Atlanta. Kenny recently finished rebuilding my 78's 350 and it is running great, he has had our 78 for 14 years and is pretty familiar with the C3 if you would be interested in us helping you out.
Heidi

 

[norvalwilhelm]

I feel it would be a bonus to find Tremec in the car. The tremec is like a T5 only much strong and desirable. As for the T5 I have used them in my nitrous, slicked 355 mustang for years without a problem and other then power shifting into 3rd you will not have a problem.
A 4 speed lacks the overdrive and a good 1st gear.
What is wrong with a 300FT -lb rating??? What is the rating of the 4 speed.
I ran a T5 for a summer behind my blown bigblock and never had a problem. Avoid powershifting and any T5 will live. Powershift is the only thing that kills these transmission.
The 300 rating is based on 24 hours at that rating. Short burst are not a problem and you will never blow 1st gear.
I use the Tremec TKO personally.
It does have a 3.27 first gear and a .68 overdrive but 2600 rpm at 100 mph is hard to beat if you have enough motor.

 

[Richard454]

I'm like five miles from American Sportscar (AKA The Last Detail) and have owned my 71 bB w M21 since 1981. If you need someone to look at it-I'm picking up some parts this week. Feel free to e-mail me. Richard454@comcat.net

 

[BeaterShark]

Norval,

Isn't the T5 made by Tremec? I'm not talking about the 3550 or TKO, but the regular old T5 that was in many Mustangs and F-body's. You definately know more about these trannys than I.

I'm not sure of the rating of a Muncie, but they have a good reputation The T5's reputation sucks. Again, I point out that in the late '80's you could get an F-body with a T5, but it was not an available option with the 350 cars. You had to get an auto if you had the 350ci engine.

Like I stated before, I'd still buy a car with a T5 world class, but I know that it is a relatively weak tranny and I'd be up for a performing a rebuild or two over the years. I just wanted to be sure tomtom72 realizes this.

 

[Robin7TFour]

I would like to thank my fellow CAC'rs for stepping up and offering to help. at least, i don't look like an idiot now!

Robin

 

[tomtom72]

Goodmorning All, Thank you all don't hardly seem to cover the depth of the help, but I'll say thanks and it is heart felt! Robin, I don't think there was ever a doubt because it was a BIG STEP UP by all at CAC! Heidi and Kenny, thanks; Rich454 thankyou also. I made a mistake on which dealer had the car, It is American Street Machines(I guess they are in Atlanta also?). I called them last evening and I will say the boss is the most enthusiastic dealer I have spoken to yet! He gave me the car owner's phone # and said to call him about the tranny. The owner is a NCRS judge( has three LT-1's & 12 vettes total). Norval,just so I can seem to know something about this tranny thing; a BW 5spd is not a T-5, and a T-5 could be a TREMAC 5spd but may be not(depends on build date)?? A BW 5spd is okay, but not as good as a T-5 or TREMAC? Most of these conversions are bolt in? Have I got the basics? Oh, ASM said it was a bolt in as far as he knew,and the present owner bought it that way. Again I say thank you to CAC members for making me feel like I belong to a club(much better than the last vette club I belonged to in the 70's). Thanks, Tom (tt72)

 

[DeanW]

Be careful with a car from the American sports car center. I purchased mine there and was less than satisfied.

 

[tomtom72]

Hi DeanW, Thanks for the heads up on ASCC, luckily(I hope) I mixed up the dealer's name. The car is at American Street Machines. I've looked at so many dealer web sites I'm getting brain lock! Sorry for your bad experience, seems like there is no ideal deal, just a series of compromises and dissapointments. At least you got yours and I hope it wasn't too hard to make it right for you. Hey, screw the dealer and enjoy the car. Now I gotta go find out about Doug Nash 5 spds because I talked to the car's owner and he said it was a Doug Nash, boy am I confused!!!!