Question: Braided brake hoses

[Redcap]

I have a 2000 hard top and have been thinking about replacing the brake hoses with braided stainless steel units. I've seen a couple things on the internet that claim that they interfere with the wheel speed sensors and produce error codes. Has anyone experienced this issue?

 

[Toms007]

First off a Welcome is in order! Next, I will have to defer any comments as I can't answer your question. Hopefully, someone will be by soon to give you some help.

 

[kpic]

Welcome to CAC and the group!!!

I'd be interested in what affects, if any, braided lines would have myself..

 

[LLC5]

Paul, c4c5, has posted in the distant past that GM has stated that steel braided brake lines can interfere with ABS sensor communication.

I have no knowledge of that happening, and personally do not know anyone that has experienced any issues with steel braided brake lines and computer communication issues.

 

[Redcap]

First off a Welcome is in order! Next, I will have to defer any comments as I can't answer your question. Hopefully, someone will be by soon to give you some help.

Thanks!

 

[Redcap]

Paul, c4c5, has posted in the distant past that GM has stated that steel braided brake lines can interfere with ABS sensor communication.

I have no knowledge of that happening, and personally do not know anyone that has experienced any issues with steel braided brake lines and computer communication issues.

Thanks for your insight on this.

 

[Hib Halverson]

I've heard the stories about braided brake hoses causing problems with ABS but, I've never experienced that myself nor have I known any other Corvetter who has braided hoses and has experienced such a problem.

I've have braided brake hoses on both my '04 ZO6 and my '12 ZO6. Neither has ever had ABS problems due to the hose installations. The '04 has had braided hoses (DIY fab-ed up from Aeroquip parts) for about ten years and the '12 (off-shelf kit from Zip Products) about three years.

If you're looking at braided line kits, I'd consider what Zip Products sells because they can be ordered with a colored vinyl overlay. For the '12, I ordered them in red to match the car's red calipers.

 

[Redcap]

I've heard the stories about braided brake hoses causing problems with ABS but, I've never experienced that myself nor have I known any other Corvetter who has braided hoses and has experienced such a problem.

I've have braided brake hoses on both my '04 ZO6 and my '12 ZO6. Neither has ever had ABS problems due to the hose installations. The '04 has had braided hoses (DIY fab-ed up from Aeroquip parts) for about ten years and the '12 (off-shelf kit from Zip Products) about three years.

If you're looking at braided line kits, I'd consider what Zip Products sells because they can be ordered with a colored vinyl overlay. For the '12, I ordered them in red to match the car's red calipers.

View attachment 25363 Thanks for your insight. I have been looking at the various manufacturers' products and I have dealt with Zip before. By the way, I've read all of your posts here on product testing and enjoyed them all.

 

[kpic]

My Corvette has stainless steel brake lines and I've never had an issue. Which is why I expressed an interest earlier. Personally, I don't see it happening and was hoping for a link that made a viable case that it did happen. Since I posted earlier I've done a few searches and found nothing.. IMO, pure web legend.

 

[LLC5]

My Corvette has stainless steel brake lines and I've never had an issue. Which is why I expressed an interest earlier. Personally, I don't see it happening and was hoping for a link that made a viable case that it did happen. Since I posted earlier I've done a few searches and found nothing.. IMO, pure web legend.

I'm not so sure that it is just web legend, and only because of Paul (c4c5). Paul has stated that GM verified (validated) the interference issue with the braided steel brake lines.

I would suffice it to say that it can possibly happen, but that it would be a very rare occasion if it did happen at all.

 

[kpic]

I'm not so sure that it is just web legend, and only because of Paul (c4c5). Paul has stated that GM verified (validated) the interference issue with the braided steel brake lines.

I would suffice it to say that it can possibly happen, but that it would be a very rare occasion if it did happen at all.

TPMS operates on a frequency according to this site (https://tpms247.com/blogs/tpms-faq/73376901-tpms-frequencies-315-mhz-433mhz) 315 (MHz (most of the world) or 433 MHz (Europe).

Other services (Government) operate in the US between 322-328.6 MHz with a 6.6 bandwidth. Depending on their power output; it could interfere with TPMS.

For an example:

433MHz really is a strange band for a few reasons. For one, it is shared by license free devices and also Amateur radio, not only can amateur radio operators use this full band with very high power for long distance DX contacts but also it is the same band that is used for car security fobs (that lock and unlock cars) along with other security devices such as garage door openers, these operate on frequency 433.920MHz.

This means anyone using a ham radio on 433.8200 MHz or even nearby frequencies near cars will be blocking out people from accessing their vehicles. I have had first hand experience of this when speaking to a friend we legally were using 433.550 which is not only license free (you can buy walkie talkies on these frequencies for your kids) but it is covered by our ham (amateur radio) licence. We were having a quick chat in a car park and panic ensued. No one could open their cars with their key fobs while we were transmitting, and we were not even on 433.820, just close-by on 433.550.

433MHz – A Very Strange UHF Band for Car Key Fobs, Garage Doors, Amateur Radio and even Mind Control? – UK Radio Transmissions

I'm not too sure about mind control; however, I'm pretty close to certain a Ham operating close to 433.920 with 50 watts would play heck with the above mentioned devices.

So TPMS could easily be interfered with by the adjacent "government service" on [FONT=&quot]322-328.6 MHz.. It would be a random interference and extremely difficult to pinpoint. [/FONT]

The frequency spectrum is a very crowded place.

 

[LLC5]

Paul wasn't referring to TPMS disruption, but the ABS generated signal to the control module which is hard wired.

 

[kpic]

Paul wasn't referring to TPMS disruption, but the ABS generated signal to the control module which is hard wired.

OK, you lost me. How a stainless steel brake line would interfere with a hard wired circuit is beyond me.

 

[LLC5]

I can only guess/assume that GM thinks that the steel brake lines can affect the magnetic field created by the abs sensor to induce a voltage. Here is a quote from a basic interpretation of a wheel speed sensor operation:


"As the ABS sensor rotor rotates, magnetic flux formed from the permanent magnet varies and alternating current is formed with an electromagnetic conductor. Using this alternating current, rotation speed is expressed as a varying proportional cycle and from detection of this cycle the CM part of the ABS HU/CM can then detect the wheel rotation speed. While the structures of the front and rear ABS wheel-speed sensor differ, the operation is the same."


Keep in mind that the above is a basic alternating current voltage signal, some abs sensors use a hall effect square wave signal. Remember also that this is GM's theory, not mine.

 

[kpic]

It could be GM and others need to shield their systems better?? When we look at a lot of systems on our vehicles nothing is shielded except spark plug wires.. Grounds are all over the vehicles and the list goes on..

Ferritic and martensitic stainless steels are magnetic. Annealed austenitic stainless steels are non-magnetic. Work hardening can make austenitic stainless steels slightly magnetic.

Stainless steel - Wikipedia

It could be as simple as some stainless steels are magnetic and others aren't. Although, GM would have metallurgists who would know that..

FWIR which is dangerous.. The Hall Effect is more precise, cleaner and does not have to be converted to be used; an AC signal must be converted. The more "stuff" often creates more problems.

There are people who debug systems; the good ones are very expensive and prefer contract's $ as compared to a direct position's $..

 

[Wayback]

SS in not magnetic,the lines are pretty far away from the ring the ABS magnetic counter uses. I dont see why it would affect it.The woven SS is just a covering anyway.

 

[Redcap]

Braided Brake Hose problems link

To all of you who contributed to my thread on this subject, I thank you. Based on everyone's answers, I'll be installing the braided brake hoses. I managed to find the link to the GM service bulletin on this matter:

1997 - 2004 Corvette: GM TechLink: Stainless Steel Brake Lines

This seemed somewhat lame to me as it is inconclusive and makes me wonder if this was an attempt by GM to blame some other factory-installed problem on the braided lines.

Again, thanks to everyone here!

 

[LLC5]

To all of you who contributed to my thread on this subject, I thank you. Based on everyone's answers, I'll be installing the braided brake hoses. I managed to find the link to the GM service bulletin on this matter:

1997 - 2004 Corvette: GM TechLink: Stainless Steel Brake Lines

This seemed somewhat lame to me as it is inconclusive and makes me wonder if this was an attempt by GM to blame some other factory-installed problem on the braided lines.

Again, thanks to everyone here!

Yeah, it's a stretch.

Another other one I found a bit amusing was GM stating not to use anti seize on spark plug threads because it can impeded the ground path of the electrode. Go figure.

 

[Wayback]

Yeah, it's a stretch.

Another other one I found a bit amusing was GM stating not to use anti seize on spark plug threads because it can impeded the ground path of the electrode. Go figure.

There are 2 types of Anti Seize,the reg "silver" & "copper" we use both in work. For "spark plugs" I use the "copper",lug nuts silver & every other thing,like shock bolts,exhaust bolts etc.I've been a die hard user, especially on lug nuts.
A premium quality copper anti-seize and thread lubricant that may be used to prevent seizing, corrosion and galling where high temperature conditions exist. Contains a high percentage of micro-fine copper flakes in a semi-synthetic grease carrier and is fortified with high quality rust and corrosion inhibitors. Temperature range: -30°F to 1800°F (-34°C to 982°C). Provides good electrical conductivity.