C-1 Water Pump

[Bwmurph]

I am (finally) getting around to inpecting and/or changing the water pump on my '59. The problem has been that the car continues to "burp" coolant out of either the overflow tube or, somtimes, it actually lifts the radiator cap and it gushes out of there. This happens just about everytime I run it for any length of time.

Several questions:

1) Does everyone who has one of these "stock" copper radiators without an expansion tank have the "burping" problem ? I am constantly having to add coolant to the system and then I sometimes overfill it which makes the problem worse.

2) Could it be my radiator ? It has less than 20K miles on it since new and appears to be in good condition.

3) The manual (several of them) say the coolant capacity is 16.5 - 17 qts. Is this the total system, including what's in the block, or is this figure the radiator capacity only ?

4) I have a 7 Lb radiator cap, which is recomended; would help to go a few Lb's higher ?

5) I'm not sure, but I think it may be sucking air into the system through the water pump gaskets, which appear to be leaking. Is that possible ?

Any help, suggestions or recommendations would be most appreciated.

Thanks,

Bernie O

 

[Hib Halverson]

I am (finally) getting around to inpecting and/or changing the water pump on my '59. The problem has been that the car continues to "burp" coolant out of either the overflow tube or, somtimes, it actually lifts the radiator cap and it gushes out of there. This happens just about everytime I run it for any length of time.

Several questions:

1) Does everyone who has one of these "stock" copper radiators without an expansion tank have the "burping" problem ? I am constantly having to add coolant to the system and then I sometimes overfill it which makes the problem worse.

2) Could it be my radiator ? It has less than 20K miles on it since new and appears to be in good condition.

3) The manual (several of them) say the coolant capacity is 16.5 - 17 qts. Is this the total system, including what's in the block, or is this figure the radiator capacity only ?

4) I have a 7 Lb radiator cap, which is recomended; would help to go a few Lb's higher ?

5) I'm not sure, but I think it may be sucking air into the system through the water pump gaskets, which appear to be leaking. Is that possible ?

Any help, suggestions or recommendations would be most appreciated.

Thanks,

Bernie O

If you constantly have to add coolant, either there is a sizable leak or you have a head gasket problem.

When the engine "burps" coolant, what is the coolant temperature?

 

[Bwmurph]

Hib,

Thanks for the reply. I am REALLY hoping I don't have a head gasket problem, although it has overheated a couple of times over the years. I thought if I had a head gasket issue I would see water in oil; is this correct. Or I would smell coolant out of the exhaust -- I have neither of these. Again, I really, really hope I don't have a head gasket issue.

When the car "burps" it is usually fairly hot, but I really don't trust my temp gauge.The gauge will register ~150 deg F when cruising, which I think is low (I have a 180 Deg F thermostat). But as soon as I hit any city traffic the temp climbs immediatley to over 210 Deg F and above several times over the yearts pegging the gauge. When it's really hot and I shut it off it almost immediately burps by lifting the radiator cap off the radiator and coolant just pours out of it. If it gets hot and I then cruise for a while to let the temp come back down to reasonable, when I shut it off it will frequently just pour out of the rubber overflow hose from the radiator, sometimes a lot, sometimes not too much.

Here's another stupid question: Which way should the rivet heads on the fan (stock four blade) face, the radiator or the motor ? Could all my problems be from putting the fan on backwards ? (That would really be embarrassing)


Thanks again for your help,

Bernie O

 

[Hib Halverson]

Hib,
(snip)
When the car "burps" it is usually fairly hot, but I really don't trust my temp gauge.The gauge will register ~150 deg F when cruising, which I think is low (I have a 180 Deg F thermostat). But as soon as I hit any city traffic the temp climbs immediatley to over 210 Deg F and above several times over the yearts pegging the gauge. When it's really hot and I shut it off it almost immediately burps by lifting the radiator cap off the radiator and coolant just pours out of it. If it gets hot and I then cruise for a while to let the temp come back down to reasonable, when I shut it off it will frequently just pour out of the rubber overflow hose from the radiator, sometimes a lot, sometimes not too much.


Here's another stupid question: Which way should the rivet heads on the fan (stock four blade) face, the radiator or the motor ? Could all my problems be from putting the fan on backwards ? (That would really be embarrassing)

Thanks again for your help,

Bernie O

As for blown head gaskets or cracked heads, if you have combustion gases or exhaust in the coolant, the radiator will smell like exhaust and you'll have a lot of crud in the coolant and in the radiator.

Internet posts are sometimes a tough way to diagnose problems, but, based on your posts, your engine seems to be overheating at slow speed.

But then, you say it "lifts" the cap off the radiator so maybe the cap sealing surface or the part of the filler neck which retains the cap is worn out and such that the cap cannot seal properly.

As for the fan question, look at the way the fan rotates, then look at the pitch of the blades. The fan should be pulling air though the radiator.

 

[Bwmurph]

Hib,

Thanks again for the reply. When I drained the coolant it did NOT notice any exhaust smell and the coolant looked almost new. No crud in it, but as mentioned earlier, it gets replaced on a regular basis. I did not drain the block, but wouldn't expect to see anyting different there either.

I know it's tough to diagnose thes ethings without being there, but any help, suggestions etc.. are appreciated.


You are correct -- only problem is at low speed like stop-and-go traffic. I can cruise at 60 mph all day with no problem - 3 minutes in traffic and it's overheating.

Another thing I noticed last night: the bottom radiator hose is being flattened by the crossmember where it comes out of the radiator. It's not crushed completely flat, but it sure isn't round anymore. I amsure this is NOT helping the issue and jsut might be my main problem. I'm ordering a new hose, but don't really see how that is going to help if it is mounted in the same place -- don't quite understand why there is no clearance there as it is basically a stock set-up.

I'm almost positive the radiator cap is sealing properly - it is a fairly new replacement "stock" radiator and, while the cap is not OEM or "stock" it is a functional replacement rated at 7 psi.

Thanks again for your help and if you or anyone else has any suggestions or recommendations they will be gratly appreciated.

Bernie O

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

Sounds like you're overfilling the radiator. There must be an air space to allow for expansion. Although 210 in city driving is not excessive, it's a sign that the fan and/or clutch are not doing their job. If the car is cooling properly on the highway, I would not suspect the radiator or hoses.

 

[Hib Halverson]

Well...if you're sure there's no head gasket problem and you're sure there's no problem with the cap or the filler neck, what did you decide with your fan?

 

[Bwmurph]

Mikey,

It's possible that I'm overfilling sometimes -- it's difficult to know just how high to fill this radiator. However, I don't think I'm always overfilling it.

Got the radiator out tonight -- hoses seem fine. Water pump comes off tomorrow. And maybe I'll have the radiator checked out at a pressure shop

Probably replace the radiator cap as well. Is it OK to go with a Stant cap with the pressure relief lever on it ? Or do I have to got with a "stock" reproduction cap ? (Tried one of them several years ago and it didn't work worth a damn)

The mystery continues and I REALLY don't want to believe I have a bad head gasket. I can chek that with a compression gauge, correct ?

Bernie O

 

[Bwmurph]

Hib,

I'm still not sure if I had the fan on right or not. I like to think I did, but I can't say for 100% sure. I'll be sure to get it on right when it goes back on.

The water pump is not off yet, but it has definitely been leaking some around the bolts, but hard to say how much. I'm still curious as to whether or not it can suck air in at these spots, which, in my mind, would certainly cause the type of problem I'm having.

Just to double check the head gasket -- a compression test should tell me if there's a problem, correct ?

Bernie O