C1 Cooling/Heating question

[Stan's Customs]

The fan clutch Paragon sells is the GM #3916141 - they're brand-new GM parts, made by Eaton.

Good as they come in a case like that.....thanks for the clarification John..

Stan..

 

[J60FI]

So .... I drove the car today... all was great for the first 10 minutes.. the temperature gauge as below 180.. then within a couple of minutes it shot to 210 and stayed between 210 and 220 for the next while.. I pulled over.. it didnt overheat... let it cool down a bit and drove back home.. i did notice some rad fluid ... not much and i couldt tell where it was comng from. it wsa on te bottom of the fan shroud..

I let it cool down to less than 100 and drove it again.. it did the same thing.. shot up in a few minutes.. tried it a couple more times and the good news it kept doing the same thing ... it would just shoot up in a couple of minutes to 220..

I did notice that when i opened the hood the temperature droped about 15 degrees. and when i closed it up it went.. dont know if thats normal.. guess more air was at work cooling.



The rad cap was holding pressure, and didnt appear to leak this time..

I have to find a IR gun.. and check the temperatures.. of .. the top hose, the temperature sender.. Should i measure anything else ?

Guess this isn't going to be as easy or quick as i was hoping for..

Is there any way to tell if i have proper flow thru the Rad?

I am scratching my head.. did i miss something with the timing.. or is it the rad?

 

[Stan's Customs]

Quote: I did notice that when i opened the hood the temperature droped about 15 degrees. and when i closed it up it went.. dont know if thats normal.. guess more air was at work cooling.

That's an air flow issue it would seem to me...
Is the fan shroud in place on this car?
How far is the fan from the radiator?
Is the fan blade on correctly?...make sure it isn't on backwards. This is easily overlooked if some put it on wrong when installing the fan clutch. BE SURE!

When you get an IR gun check the inlet and outlet of the radiator...that will tell you if it is circulating...just won't tell you if its circulating enough. Chech the actual block and head surfaces...

The temp on the IR gun should match the dash gauge reading when the block is checked by the temp sending unit. This will verify the car's instrument accuracy...

I don't believe in parts changing...but in your case , since the radiator may have been sitting for years and its condition is truly unknown I would have it cleaned at this point. As I mentioned before, even if the cooling problem was found I would do this to ensure that the new engine had a long life..

I am thinking leaking headgasket or cracked head really...but I would still clean the radiator next!

To check for a head or gasket leak, pull the sparkplugs and examine them carefully...see if one looks considerably cleaner than the rest. If so ..borrow a radiator pressure checker and pressure up the cooling system... wait a few minutes then spin the starter with the plugs out and see if any water is expelled from the cylinder with the cleaner plug. (or any cylinder for that matter)

You have checked the oil as discussed earlier...correct?

Does this car start quickly and easily?

Does it clatter any under acceleration?

What was the ambient temperature the day you last tested all this?

Stan..

 

[J60FI]

Quote: I did notice that when i opened the hood the temperature droped about 15 degrees. and when i closed it up it went.. dont know if thats normal.. guess more air was at work cooling.

That's an air flow issue it would seem to me...
Is the fan shroud in place on this car?
How far is the fan from the radiator?
Is the fan blade on correctly?...make sure it isn't on backwards. This is easily overlooked if some put it on wrong when installing the fan clutch. BE SURE!

When you get an IR gun check the inlet and outlet of the radiator...that will tell you if it is circulating...just won't tell you if its circulating enough. Chech the actual block and head surfaces...

The temp on the IR gun should match the dash gauge reading when the block is checked by the temp sending unit. This will verify the car's instrument accuracy...

I don't believe in parts changing...but in your case , since the radiator may have been sitting for years and its condition is truly unknown I would have it cleaned at this point. As I mentioned before, even if the cooling problem was found I would do this to ensure that the new engine had a long life..

I am thinking leaking headgasket or cracked head really...but I would still clean the radiator next!

To check for a head or gasket leak, pull the sparkplugs and examine them carefully...see if one looks considerably cleaner than the rest. If so ..borrow a radiator pressure checker and pressure up the cooling system... wait a few minutes then spin the starter with the plugs out and see if any water is expelled from the cylinder with the cleaner plug. (or any cylinder for that matter)

You have checked the oil as discussed earlier...correct?

Does this car start quickly and easily?

Does it clatter any under acceleration?

What was the ambient temperature the day you last tested all this?

Stan..

I just got an IR gun,, so when it stops raining I will take a drive and get some temperatures.. looks like it may be tomorrow..

I will try to answere your other questions as best that I can..

The fan shroud is in place..

I think the blade is on correctly..

I attached a photo that was taken before I changed the clutch but the fan is on in the same orientation as the pictures... also I have different rad cap now..

I will measure the distance from the fan to the rad...but the fan blades just enter the shroud.

I did check the oil and is was good only oil.. nothing white or milky

The car starts quickly... usually on the first turn of the key..

It doesn't clatter at all under any acceleration.

The ambient temperature was 86 degrees on the last drive..

It looks like my overflow tube was plugged with rust.. i cleared it out on saturday. and didnt have any fluid coming out of the cap on Sunday. so i am leaning towards a plugged rad.. guess when i take the temps I should know.. I will take your advice and get the rad cleaned out.. IF its plugged will this be enough? or should I look at replacing or recoring..

I am hoping its not the head gasket or cracked head.. all the plugs are brand new.... So I will check for water by taking each one out at a time an turning over the engine and look for spray..

Keep you posted.. THanks again..
Joe

:bash

 

[Stan's Customs]

Hello Joe..

The fan is on correctly..

Your local radiator shop can advise you whether the radiator was in bad shape or not when they unsolder the tanks, and if it has to be recored or can just be rodded out.

Something is rotten in Denmark here...Mid 80's ambient temps shouldn't heat up anything. ...I guess a professional did the engine work, correct?


I would pull all the plugs at one time...then compare them side by side to see if one appears cleaner than the others. Water in a cylinder generally will burn off deposits and be lighter in color. Hard to compare them one by one.

Also spinning the engine over will be easier with the plugs out...I'd take a compression check if no water issues present themselves. (since the plugs are already out)

You will need a helper to spin the starter a couple of times while you observe the plug holes... "while the radiator is pressured up with a pressure pump" ....unless of course you have a really big leak.

Stan..

 

[Tom Bryant]

Did you check your timing with a timing light or did I miss that? A base motor should be set at 4 degrees btc with the engine warmed to operating temperature and the vacuum advance hose to the distributor disconnected and plugged.

It doesn't sound to me like you have internal engine problems and you are doing well to eliminate the easy things to check first. The rust plugged overflow tube is probably a clue to what the inside of the radiator looks like. Although anti-freeze never looses it's ability to prevent freezing it does loose it's anti corrosion properties due to evaporation. On a daily driver you should change the coolant every other year. On a collector car you should at least add a bottle of cooling system treatment from the auto parts store every other year to maintain your coolant's ability to prevent corrosion and rust/calcium scale from plugging the tubes in the radiator. Keep a jug of 50/50 mixed water/anti-freeze around for when you need to add some to the system then you won't dilute the ratio.

If it was my car, before I tore out the radiator or got into any other involved tests, I'd go to the auto parts store and see what they recommend for an in car cooling system flush (or read the labels yourself to see what sounds like it will do what you want). A brand name would probably be a good choice. There are many bio-degradable ones out there now that you can wash down a floor drain. I'd do an in-car flush following directions and then refill with pure water. Then I'd go for a drive. Your car won't overheat just because you have pure water in it. Nextel Cup cars run only water because it doesn't make a slippery mess if it comes out of the system and water actually transfers heat better than coolant.

Keep in mind that your car does not have a coolant recovery tank on it so if you fill it clear up to the top of the spout it will burb out some water when it warms up. My '59 would rarely have any coolant in the fill neck when the engine was cool. If it still dumps coolant and your temps measure hot with the IR gun then I'd remove the radiator and take it to a shop for a thorough cleaning. Then refill the system with water to check everything out. If all is fine and running cool then drain it and put in a 50/50 anti-freeze mix.

Tom

 

[ET-VIPER]

WHEN A CAR IN MOVING AND AS A OVER HEATING PROBLEM;

TIMING OFF
CAR RUNNING TO LEAN
BLOWN HEAD GASKET

I DID HAVE ONE PROBLEM LONG TIME A GO THE HEAD GASKET I USED
DID NOT MATCH THE HEADS BLOCKED A LOT OF THE WATER FLOW OFF.
THAT TOOK A WHILE TO FIND.NOW CHECK HEAD AND BLOCK TO MAKE
SURE THEY BOTH MATCH GASKET.

STEVE

 

[J60FI]

Ok.. here is the latest...

yesterday I went for a drive with my son... notebook in hand and IR gun.. when the gauge read 180 we pulled over .. and with the engine stil running took some temps..

the ambient temp was 45 degrees
the temp sending area measured about 160..

when the gauge read 210.... the temp sending unit was 180.. the rad inlet was 125

when the gauge read 220.... the temp sending unit was stil 180 .. the rad inlet was 125..

then the car dies... can you believe it... we ran out of gas... luckily it was close to home.. the wife wasnt too thrilled about bringing us some gas..

we went on to the gas station and filled up.. as we were there I decided to take some more temps.. the gauge read 220 and the rad cap started pucking sprayed the entire car right over the top and onto the trunk..

so we cooled her down.. drove back home... by deduction i assumed that i have either a faulty gauge or a bad temp sending unit.. and probably a plugged rad..

So this morning we pulled the rad and took it to a rad shop..... flow was good.. pressure was good.. bottom line its not the rad... Still have either a faulty gauge or sending unit...

The antifreeze was good.. no oil ... just antifreeze..

The guy at the rad shop says.. CHANGE YOUR RAD CAP.. GOT TO A 13 POUND CAP..

So I found a 13 pound cap .. put the rad back in... while it was took the opportunity to change the engine mounts.. so it turned out to be a productive day..

Put fluid back in 50/50 mix... warmed up the car.. didnt drive it... watched as the gauge read 220.. took some more IR gun readings..

gauge 220
temp sender 178
rad inlet 155
top rad hose @ Tstat - 143
top rad at inlet - 132
lower rad hose - 115
thermostat housing - 181

with the new 13 Lbs cap. nothing spewed out..

Had to call it quits.. for now..

Tomorrow I plan changin the dash gauge, (have a spare one) and we drive ....

Keep you updated

SO FAR I THINK I HAD A BAD RAD CAP... AND TEMPERATURE SENDING UNIT OR BAD GAUGE..

 

[Stan's Customs]

gauge 220
temp sender 178
rad inlet 155
top rad hose @ Tstat - 143
top rad at inlet - 132
lower rad hose - 115
thermostat housing - 181

...good, good, good!


Allrightey Then....Glad things are finally looking up.

....what kind of cap did you have on it...??

I thought we had covered that early on..

Well anyway I hope the cap is all it was. If that is it...it wasn't overheating at all, that's why nothing was making sense.....

Hard not to believe the gauge though.

Best regards....Stan

 

[Stan's Customs]

By the way you may still loose a little fluid immediately after filling...since there is no expansion tank. Should stop after it equalizes..

Stan..

 

[Tom Bryant]

Most replacement temperature senders do not have the correct resistance to give an accurate reading in an old Corvette. This includes GM raplacements. I would suggest a sender from Lectric Limited.

 

[J60FI]

gauge 220
temp sender 178
rad inlet 155
top rad hose @ Tstat - 143
top rad at inlet - 132
lower rad hose - 115
thermostat housing - 181

...good, good, good!


Allrightey Then....Glad things are finally looking up.

....what kind of cap did you have on it...??

I thought we had covered that early on..

Well anyway I hope the cap is all it was. If that is it...it wasn't overheating at all, that's why nothing was making sense.....

Hard not to believe the gauge though.

Best regards....Stan

Thanks Stan.. appreciate all you advice

I had a RC1 7 lbs cap on.. and changed over to a prestone 13 lbs cap...

 

[J60FI]

Most replacement temperature senders do not have the correct resistance to give an accurate reading in an old Corvette. This includes GM raplacements. I would suggest a sender from Lectric Limited.

Thanks Tom.... nothing beats sticking to the basics.. do the easy stuff first... GET AN IR GUN!!!

I will be ordering a new temperature sending unit from Lectric!!

 

[J60FI]

The rain finally let up and the sun came out yesterday.

Took the 60 for a good ride... about an hour... it was 70 yesterday..

The temp gauge read 220 most of the time.. but the IR gun said different.. Just waiting for the new temp sending unit to arrive..

Good ride... had some rad fluid come out the overflow tube until it stabilized.. but all was good..

Thanks for all you help and advice on this problem.. Now on to the next .... which one to tackle first... heater or wipers... hmmm


thanks again.
Joe

 

[Matt62]

this is the same problem I am having , my question would be what should the temp be as normal . Mine is a 62 It sat for the last 2 years , I just had a flywheel , starter , water pump and heater core put on the thermastat was a 160 the guy recomended a 180 . Prior to all this work the car ran according to the gauge about 190 and the temp would drop after idling . Now with the 180 it will idle forever at 160 to180 but after its driven it climbs to 220 and wont drop while idling . I have 2 fans , an electric on the outside and an aluminum on the engine .

I havent changed the cap , but thats on the list and I have a 160 to reinstall instead of the 180 . Thoughts?