C2 on jackstands - 2 questions

[BarryK]

Ok, I got my new floor jack and jackstands yesterday.
I purchased the Sears aluminum 4000lbs jack and 2 sets of the 6-ton jackstands. I know the 6-ton stands might be a bit of overkill but they were only $10 a set more than the 3.5-ton stands so I figured it's a lot of extra safety margin for a small amount of money. Also, It looked as though the feet of the larger stands were a little further apart which should make for greater stability.

Now, as I'm aware that if everything goes properly, this should be a safe and uneventful process of getting the car up and down on the stands but i'm also aware that doing things the wrong way could kill either the car or more importantly myself so I'm following Larry's (IH2LOSE) constant advice to me of "THINK IT THROUGH FIRST".
First thing I did was look in my Shop Manual for proper placement points to jack up the car. Fine, easy, no problem there, it's easily shown. I made sure the car was in gear & emergency brake on.
the drivers side is fairly close to the garage wall so figuring that was the more difficult side I better start there first. Not having much room to work I have no choice but to have the jack as an angle to the car, approx 45* or so but I got the jack saddle carefully under the frame rail in front of the crossmember at the front point on the rail that the manual shows, got the saddle of the jack snug up against the frame and double checked it was centered on the frame, etc and started to slowly jack up the one side and STOPPED. The car was shifting all over the place - a little front to back movement but a bunch of side-to-side movement and the jack kept following where the car was going. WTF!!
Why is the car moving all over the place rather than just lifting up on that side as it should be doing? I'm guessing the jack moved a good 3-5" from where it originally started on the garage floor?
I was not comfortable proceeding any further after that so I carefully lowered the car back down on it's tires and decided to ask a few questions first.

1. is the jack moving like that somewhat normal because as the car is raised on it's side the jack is just following it as the weight of the car on the jack is keeping the jacked centered under the frame rail as the angle of the car being raised changes it's position?

2. the shop manual specifies front jack placement at the very front of the car at the front edges of the frame rails in front of the crossmember ahead of the front suspension but it doesn't say or illustrate where the rear jackstands should be placed.

sorry if these are really stupid questions but i've never put a car up on stands before and I just want to be able to work on my car - not kill myself or cause major damage to the car in the process.

 

[Ken Anderson]

The shop manual jack points are for:
1. Changing a flat at the side of the road
2. If you're using a four post lift
When using a floor jack;
1. Jack up the front end centering on the front cross member and make sure you use a piece of tire to keep from bending the front bumper supports
2. Jack up the rear by centering under the 3rd member and aforementioned tire tread
3. If you want the whole car off the floor, then start at the rear.
THE JACK MUST NOT BE AT AN OFF ANGLE TO THE CAR, IT MUST BE PARALLEL TO THE FRAME - OR BE PREPARED TO CATCH THE FALLING CAR.

 

[Geek's 65]

THE JACK MUST NOT BE AT AN OFF ANGLE TO THE CAR, IT MUST BE PARALLEL TO THE FRAME - OR BE PREPARED TO CATCH THE FALLING CAR.

Ken - I don't get this one. I have been jacking my car up perpendicular to the frame for years and never caught a car. The floor jack does move in as the car goes up but that's just as Barry suspected - the weight of the car is forcing the jack to stay centered under it. Let the car down slowly and it moves back out. Not trying to be the south end of a north bound mule but if I have been doing this dangerously I'd like to know why.

Geek

 

[BarryK]

Ken, I'm very confused now.
I was previously told it was not a good idea to jack up the front by the front crossmember as that is how so many of these cars have dents and dimples in them and that jacking should be done by the side rails.
I was also told (by 67Heaven) that the jack COULD be at an angle to the car (on the side rails) and didn't have to be perfectly straight on perpendicular to it. If it does, than I have trouble as there is NO WAY I have enough room to get the jack in there like that and be able to pump the handle.

sorry, I'm not trying to argue or debate what you are saying as I appreciate your response to my questions, i'm just confused as it seems to be contrary to the information I previously got. :confused

 

[BarryK]

The floor jack does move in as the car goes up but that's just as Barry suspected - the weight of the car is forcing the jack to stay centered under it. Let the car down slowly and it moves back out.

Geek, that's good to find out that the jack movement is normal. If that's the case I'll know now to expect it and not be overly concerned. Not knowing this before caused me a lot of concern though as I really did not expect the jack to be moving around like it did.
If others say the same thing than I'll not worry about it. As you may imagine, this being my first time jacking it up it surprised me and being alarmed about it I felt best to hold off and continue AFTER I found out more info.

 

[midyearroadster427]

I put my car up on jack stands every winter to tinker with it. I first block the rear tire..then jack the front up with a piece of wood onthe jack pad..on the front crossmember....I put two jack stands up front on the siderails....and slowly let the jack down on them... then I jack up the rear end....again block of wood used ....and place two jack stands on the rails towards the back... then i go up front and jack up the front higher...adjust jack stands.. and then the same to the rear until i get the height i want the car at. it takes time but it works.. jacking from the side and placing jackstands on the rail then jacking the other side isnt the best way in my opinion..remember as you jack, the jack will roll...I almost pulled the car off the two jackstands the first time i tried doing it that way... my opinion...jack front and rear...straight angle ...and just take your time and get to the height you want the car at...as you can see ...everyone has their own way of doing things...whatever is comfortable for you do it. just take your time......

 

[Wilkinshc]

Barry,

I have been working on car since I was 16 and I am 43 now. In all my years, you can jack it up from the front or side( from 35, 45, 90 or what ever degrees). The jack will move as stated above, that is normal. As where to put the jack, you want it where it will not damage the car. Good places are frame rail, rear differential housing, anywhere strong enough to hold the wieght. Bad places are fiberglass body, oil pan, tanny pan. As for the crossmember I would say no because they have indented on many cars, if you don't mind the indent or already have dented it I doubt it would push through it but why dent it if you don't have to.

I personal start at the rear differential that way it lifts the rear together and I put jackstands on both back frame rails at the same time. Depending on how high you go watch the front nose so it doesn't touch the floor. Then I lift the front up under each a-arm (under the shock mount) if your jack is low enough.

Hope that helps.
Chuck

 

[Ken Anderson]

Ken - I don't get this one. I have been jacking my car up perpendicular to the frame for years and never caught a car. The floor jack does move in as the car goes up but that's just as Barry suspected - the weight of the car is forcing the jack to stay centered under it. Let the car down slowly and it moves back out. Not trying to be the south end of a north bound mule but if I have been doing this dangerously I'd like to know why.

Geek

Depends on how high you jack it. If you jack a car from the side, then the tires can "roll under" and you can wind up with a car on it's side. Not trying to be a smart ass, but, you guys need to take a shop safety course.

 

[4WDVETTE]

Barry - Ever watch a NASCAR Race? Jacking from the side is not a problem. I have been doing it for years and never have I rolled a car over. Even in the heat of a race when tenths of a second count, always from the side. An angle is not a problem either, unless it is too severe. Always watch as the car goes up. The jack should go with it. I go in short amounts with my 66 since I have side pipes and when you lift from one side the other side cover gets closer to the ground. Oh yeah, now I just push the up button on the lift.

Steve

 

[maxphunn]

Wow Barry, you do start some interesting threads.

Not saying this is right, but this is how I do my '66. Jack up one side by the rail at the rear and place a stand (lowest setting) under the rail. Do the same for the other side at the rear. Jack is okay at an angle. Jack up the front by the cross member, jack straight in. I have a piece of 2x4 that sits in the jack saddle and between the lower bumper braces, it protects the crossmember. Put stands at the front of the rails.

I was always under the impression that jacking up a midyear by the rear differential was a no-no....something about cracking your gord..er..pumpkin.

Barry - Ever watch a NASCAR Race? Jacking from the side is not a problem. I have been doing it for years and never have I rolled a car over. Even in the heat of a race when tenths of a second count, always from the side. An angle is not a problem either, unless it is too severe. Always watch as the car goes up. The jack should go with it. I go in short amounts with my 66 since I have side pipes and when you lift from one side the other side cover gets closer to the ground. Oh yeah, now I just push the up button on the lift.

Steve

 

[BarryK]

Wow Barry, you do start some interesting threads.

ain't that the truth. Whenever I ask what I think should be a simple, straight forward questions seems to always turn into something comnplex and my threads turn into 157 pages of a soap opera.

Imagine if i asked something that I already thought was complex??

 

[BarryK]

ok, one my question......... god, i'm almost afraid to ask and see what kind of controversy this one will create...........

I know that it's not good to leave the car up on stands for an extended period of time with the suspension hanging free but what is a safe amount of time to leave it like that? a day? a few days? a couple weeks?
the reason I ask is that my current project is going to last for at least a few more weeks and I'll need to get under the car periodically to work on different things. If I can leave it up it would be a lot easier than lifting it than lowering it again, than lifting it, lowering it again, etc every day or couple of days.

 

[Geek's 65]

You are the King of Threads - I swear Barry. Great questions that I think many might want to ask but don't. So good on ya. Just to put your mind at ease and because I am an engineer with that 'I wonder' gene, - I went out and jacked mine up with my Sears floor jack. Very carefully near the end there but all the freaking way to the top. High as it would go (I too have the large 2 Ton jack). It didn't roll over. (It was one hell of a wierd sight and nobody in their right mind would do it to work on the car) So I cancelled my registration to that safety class along with all the NASCAR guys. The good news is that I think you got your question answered and have a good idea what to watch out for when you are jacking up your ride.

Geek

 

[allcoupedup]

I jack mine up on the side rail - just forward of the transmision x-member - both wheels on one side come off the ground. I raise it just enough to slide in the jacks on the lowest setting. Then I do the other side + 2 notches, then back to the original side + 4 notches, then back to the other side + 2 notches. At no point is it close to tipping. I use 3 ton jack stands.


BUUUUUT I have small jacks. I used to have huge 6 ton stands that were too high - even at the lowest setting and I didn't feel safe jacking one side of the car up high enough to slide 'em under.

Brian

 

[Viet Nam Vett]

I use the New Alpha Matic Ben-zolen Shifting Wave Flux Capacitor..To Levitate My car from the frame horn ends... I can get her up about 17 Inches off the floor. Leaves no marks anyware on the frame.

And also it lets me lay under the car to work while I maintain levitated 3 " clearence from the Garage floor........

 

[BarryK]

Brian, where are you placing your stands on the frame?

wow, that was very helpful Mark, thanks!

 

[67HEAVEN]

Step 1. Block both wheels on side opposite the jack.

Step 2. Jack from side rail until there's room to insert 3-ton stands (at third level up) -- see positioning.

NOTE: Stands are higher in this frame-only photo.

Step 3. Move to other side.

Step 4. Jack from side rail until there's room to insert 3-ton stands (at third level up).

Step 5. Grab car and shake to confirm stability prior to rolling under. Better the car falls before you get under it.

I would never have had the comfort zone for jacking it that high, all at once, until I witnessed Fuelie doing it. Now, I get a kick out of watching other people's faces when I do it. :gap

I've spent many, many hours under the car this way and have never felt the least bit nervous.

 

[Geek's 65]

I use the New Alpha Matic Ben-zolen Shifting Wave Flux Capacitor..To Levitate My car from the frame horn ends... I can get her up about 17 Inches off the floor. Leaves no marks anyware on the frame.

And also it lets me lay under the car to work while I maintain levitated 3 " clearence from the Garage floor........

VNV that's old technology. The new Zed matic does all that AND comes with a blonde to hand you the proper wrench, red head for the sockets, and brunette to serve you the required beer chilled to a frosty 43 degrees F.

 

[Viet Nam Vett]

VNV that's old technology. The new Zed matic does all that AND comes with a blonde to hand you the proper wrench, red head for the sockets, and brunette to serve you the required beer chilled to a frosty 43 degrees F.

Yeah man.... I want me one of them .....

 

[BarryK]

Mark didn't give me a real answer........... it's because this is the only thing he worries about jack up