C5 education needed

[needmorespeed]

C5 hardtop suspension education needed

It seems I am in a similar situation again. I was hoping/planning on getting an 08-ish C6 when my wife started her new job. The job fell through, bought a house, life moves on. So the search continues and I am now looking at getting an 03-04 hardtop. It is my understanding that all hardtops came standard with the z51 suspension. However, I am a little unclear about what exactly that option entails. I like the magnetic suspension but does the z51 suspension an option on top of it or does the z51 suspension replace the magnetic suspension.

This will be my first Corvette so forgive me if I may sound a little ignorant. I have done some searching and haven't found a whole lot but I may have missed something. I am only looking at the hardtop, not the coupe with the removable roof section or the convertible. From what I have found the hardtop is the lightest and stiffest, plus I like the look over the coupe.

I plan on tracking/autocrossing the car so the suspension is a key component. Also, when I actually go out and look at cars what numbers should I look for that will tell me what suspension the car has.

Thanks in advance for the input. I am in the research phase of the buying the car right now and I plan on taking my time to get the right one for me.

 

[Hib Halverson]

Only 99-00 hardtops (aka "fixed-roof coupe) has Z51.

The 01-04s were Z06es which is quite a step beyond Z51 in ride and handling.

C5 Z06es are popular track cars.

No 99-00 hardtop or 01-04 Z06 had Magnaride. On C5, MR was an option only on 03 and 04 coupes or convertibles

 

[timfitz63]

Welcome!

I think you'll be pleased with a C5; they're great cars, and the C6 isn't that much of a different car underneath.

To answer your question(s), you've mainly got it correct, although the model years don't -- strictly speaking -- conform to the terminology you're applying... I'll try to summarize the information, but you might refer to this Wikipedia page on the C5 for more details; it's actually pretty accurate.

The 'base' fixed-roof coupe (FRC) body was only available in the 1999 and 2000 model years; it did come standard with the Z51 suspension (RPO FE3, consisting of stiffer springs, different shocks, and thicker torsion bars), although I'm unsure whether the full Z51 package (FE3 suspension with a power steering cooler) was included on the FRC. It may have been, but someone else on the forum will probably have to confirm it for us. You could also just look for "Z51" on the RPO sticker of any FRC to determine whether the full package is there. If "Z51" is on the RPO sticker, you've automatically got the FE3 suspension (and "FE3" will also appear somewhere on the sticker). If "Z51" does not appear, look for whatever suspension code (FE_) is present; it may still be FE3; for comparison, the base suspension was RPO FE1. In 2001-2004, the FRC body style 'morphed' into the Z06 model, with a higher-output (LS6) engine and a stiffer suspension (RPO FE4) than the Z51 suspension. The selective/magnetic ride suspensions (RPO F45, later F55) were separate options, and not available with the FE3 or FE4 suspensions. So I don't think one even had the option of getting it with the FRC/Z06.

Good luck finding your car! The hunt is half the fun!

 

[needmorespeed]

Thanks for the info. I was under the impression the FRC was built through 2004 in addition to the Z06.

So new question then, does the magnetic suspension option (F45/F55) perform better at the track than the z51 option package? The Z06 would be the best option at the track but what about non-Z06 cars. I assume the magnetic suspension would be during normal/everyday driving as you could relax the shocks but would they then be stiffer at the track? Should I be looking for the magnetic suspension instead of the z51 option?

 

[Hib Halverson]

In a literal sense the "FRC" or "hardtop" model was built from 99-04, however, for 2001, GM significantly upgraded the performance of the hardtops and made it a separate brand "Z06". All Z06es are hardtops but not all hardtops are Z06es...if you get my drift.

As far as RPOs, all 99-00 hardtops were equipped with Z51 which was not just a suspension package but a performance package. Part of Z51 was FE3 which was the engineering RPO for the C5's uplevel suspension. All Z06es had a further upgrade of the suspension, FE4. There were three slight variations of FE4 depending on model year.

FE3 or FE4 did not appear no window stickers but did appear on the sticker that's on the back of the glovebox door. The appearance of those ID's is not important because all hardtops have FE3 and all Z06es have FE4.

As for track performance the best choice would be a Z06 by far. A 99-00 hardtop would not even be close. As for F45 and F55, nether of those options were available on any C6 hardtop or Z06.

 

[timfitz63]

... So new question then, does the magnetic suspension option (F45/F55) perform better at the track than the z51 option package? The Z06 would be the best option at the track but what about non-Z06 cars. I assume the magnetic suspension would be during normal/everyday driving as you could relax the shocks but would they then be stiffer at the track...?

As Hib pointed out, if you're going to stick to the FRC body style, the selective/magnetic suspensions (F45/F55) are not even an option; you'll get either an FE3 ('99-00 FRC) or FE4 ('01-04 Z06) suspension.

But to answer your question in the context of the other body styles (coupe, convertible), yes that's the essence of it. The selective/magnetic suspensions had a softer, 'touring' mode and a stiffer 'race day' mode. I can't really say whether the F45/F55 systems will match or out-perform the FE3 or FE4 set-ups; they might. Hib or someone who's been able to directly compare them might know.

... Should I be looking for the magnetic suspension instead of the z51 option?

Ultimately, that's something you'll have to decide for yourself. Drive both, if you can find them available. Personally, I've never longed for the selective/magnetic suspension. They seem to work well enough, but if they develop problems, they can be expensive to fix. And I think the replaceable components (e.g., shocks) are also pricey. My '04 convertible has the Z51 package, and I think it's the right blend -- without the added complexity and cost -- of acceptable street ride while still being competitive on the track (although I've never autocrossed mine). The Z06's FE4 suspension is definitely meant for the track, so it can be a bit jarring on rough public roads. But if you can live with that, it'll reward you at the track -- not only with the suspension but the extra horsepower.

Another thing to note is that, even a base-model car with the FE1 suspension can be upgraded to the Z06's FE4 suspension with relative ease, if that's what you're looking to do. Like most things, it just takes time and money... The same can't really be said about a car originally fitted with the F45/F55 systems, though; it would likely be cost-prohibitive to do a change-over to one of the purely mechanical suspension choices -- and vice versa.

 

[Tuna]

Suspension? Depends on how you see yourself driving the car. Do you intend to track or autocross the C5 regularly? Is it going to be a daily driver? etc.?

My last C5 was F55 and I loved it - an '03 AE Vert. The "Tour" mode almost made it feel like the roads had been repaved while the "Sport" mode brought the car closer to Z51 handling. Notice, I said "closer" to Z51 handling. The F55 option on the C5 was more for enhanced ride rather than enhanced handling. Given that my C5 was a driver and not a racer, F55 or MagRide was the ticket. Since then, we're owned 3 C6s and one Caddy with MagRide and I would not have it any other way. It allows you to select the driving mode that suits where you're driving and how you're driving at the time.

Yes, the shocks are expensive if they break but they don't seem to break often. My ex C5 belongs to a co-worker now, it's 10+ years old and the shocks are still working good.

If I was looking for a C5, I would not consider the older F45 suspension - it just not as good as the '03/'04 F55 suspension.

Model type - coupe, convertible, hardtop: The coupe or vert can be found with Z51 suspension, F45/55 or base. The hardtop is only FE3 or FE4 as noted earlier by Hib and others and MagRide is not available on them.

 

[LLC5]

Should I be looking for the magnetic suspension instead of the z51 option?

For street driving this is the best set up. The down side is repair costs if a shock goes bad, I would price out a set before buying a vehicle with magnetic suspension just to understand what you would be getting into. The up side is that the magnetic ride control is the best for street driving, and you may never have a problem with them. Good luck either way.

 

[needmorespeed]

All good info

Thanks everyone for the information. I do have my priorities straight as far as usage. It will be a daily driver first, year round as well. I live in Denver so the winter will be an issue but I have found some all seasons that will get me through the winter. It will be autocrossed regularly and tracked occasionally. I am willing to put up with a pretty harsh ride during my commute for the beautiful weekend drives in the mountains. I really like the idea of getting a convertible but HPR requires a cage, so that is a big deterrent for me. I am fond of the hardtop look over the coupe, and a Z06 is really pulling me in that direction. I think from the info here I am going to narrow it down to a 03/04 Z06 or a Z51 option on the coupe.


I will drive both before I buy. I think it will come down to condition/mileage/price for what I can find. I don't think I can go wrong with either. Again, thanks to everyone for the information. It has helped a lot.


I will post some pics once I pick one up.

 

[LLC5]

Thanks everyone for the information. I do have my priorities straight as far as usage. It will be a daily driver first, year round as well. I live in Denver so the winter will be an issue but I have found some all seasons that will get me through the winter. It will be autocrossed regularly and tracked occasionally. I am willing to put up with a pretty harsh ride during my commute for the beautiful weekend drives in the mountains. I really like the idea of getting a convertible but HPR requires a cage, so that is a big deterrent for me. I am fond of the hardtop look over the coupe, and a Z06 is really pulling me in that direction. I think from the info here I am going to narrow it down to a 03/04 Z06 or a Z51 option on the coupe.


I will drive both before I buy. I think it will come down to condition/mileage/price for what I can find. I don't think I can go wrong with either. Again, thanks to everyone for the information. It has helped a lot.


I will post some pics once I pick one up.

If your choices are narrowed down to a Z06 or a Z51 coupe and you are going to autocross regularly and tracked occasionally, the Z06 would probably serve you best. It has additional coolers on it, plus additional power in the later models. Getting the latest model is always the best idea, and the FRC design really looks good on C5. Enjoy your new vehicle.

 

[Hib Halverson]

If your choices are narrowed down to a Z06 or a Z51 coupe and you are going to autocross regularly and tracked occasionally, the Z06 would probably serve you best. It has additional coolers on it, plus additional power in the later models. Getting the latest model is always the best idea, and the FRC design really looks good on C5. Enjoy your new vehicle.

For autoX and tracking, a Z06 is clearly a better choice over a base car with Z51, however, no C5 Z06 had any "additional coolers". In fact, a common mod for those who track C5 Zs in warm weather is the addition of one of the several aftermarket transmission cooler kits.

 

[LLC5]

For autoX and tracking, a Z06 is clearly a better choice over a base car with Z51, however, no C5 Z06 had any "additional coolers". In fact, a common mod for those who track C5 Zs in warm weather is the addition of one of the several aftermarket transmission cooler kits.

I know that they have rear brake ducts, and I think front brake cooling ducts where the fog lights normally go. I also thought that the transmission had a cooler and the p/s cooler had fins on it, but I could be wrong.

 

[Hib Halverson]

Steering coolers?
Yes. In fact, they're on C5s w Z51 as well as Z06es.

What the Z06 lacked was OE engine oil, transmission and rear axle coolers.

The trans cooler should have been OE. C5s which are tracked, often have trouble with overheated transmission lubricant. One easy solution is to upgrade the lube. Better is to add an aftermarket cooler.

 

[tankman]

Hib-
You touched on something that I was wondeering about.
What is the average temp for driving around, lighter usseage? At what temp is the fluid getting too hot?

Thanks

 

[Hib Halverson]

The factory fill lube in a C5's manual trans is Dexron ATF.

I'd say any sustained trans temp over 265°F is cause for concern. In fact, export C5 manuals had a trans overtemp light which came on at 275°F. That light was added to export cars because GM was worried about people driving 140+ on the Autobahn or Autostrada on warm days and frying transmissions.

An easy fix to get a modest temp reduction along with better tolerance of higher trans temps, is to use a premium, ester-based synthetic trans lube such as Red Line MTL or Red Line Superlight Shockproof Gear Lubricant.

MTL is a great choice for performance street applications and even street-track.
Superlight Shockproof is a good solution for street-track and a great solution for track only.

 

[needmorespeed]

...
MTL is a great choice for performance street applications and even street-track.
Superlight Shockproof is a good solution for street-track and a great solution for track only.

Right now I currently run Royal Purple and I was wondering what your thoughts are on that particular brand. So far it seems to be doing well in my mustang. Whole other type of car I know but I would think the results would similar.

 

[Hib Halverson]

Right now I currently run Royal Purple and I was wondering what your thoughts are on that particular brand. So far it seems to be doing well in my mustang. Whole other type of car I know but I would think the results would similar.

What I know about Royal Purple products has not convinced me to switch from using Red Line lubricants.

You didn't say what year Mustang or what kind of transmission your talking about, but if it's an older Mustang with a T5 WC, I have the same transmission in an older Camaro. The best lube I found for that application was Red Line MTL.

As for Mustangs with six-speeds, I think they use the same Tremec transmissions as does GM. Again, there is nothing about Royal Purple which would convince me to switch to it from Red Line. In my T56 (C5) and TR6060 (C6) I use Red Line Light Shockproof Gear lubricant.

Hope that helps.

 

[needmorespeed]

It is a T-3650. I have a 2004 5 Speed GT. They switched the trans in late 01 along with a with other things. Before late 01 I believe they ran a T-45 but I could be wrong on that. Anyway, thanks for the info on the trans fluid, another opinion never hurts.