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Consequences of Unleaded

kevin-design

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Messages
85
Location
Charlotte, NC
Corvette
1992 Black convertible LT1
I have a '92 LT1 convertible, and I sometimes use premium and sometimes use unleaded gas. I don't notice pinging either way and I'm not sure that I notice a significant performance difference. Am I causing any damaged by saving a (couple of) buck and using unleaded? What are the consequences?
Thanks!
-Kevin
 
All motor vehicle fuels sold at retail outlets in the United States is unleaded. The difference is the octane rating of the fuels. Most "regular unleaded" is 87 octane... the car will run, the computer will normally compensate for the reduced octane by reducing the timing when the knock sensor detects knocking, thus reduced engine performance.
"Mid-grade" unleaded is usually 89 octane, again reduced performance due to the reduced anti-knock qualities.
"Premium unleaded" is usually 92 - 93 octane, although you may find some places that will go as high as 100 octane. None around my way though.
The difference in price is approx. 10 cents / grade as you go up in octane quality. Therefore, the difference in price per gallon between the "regular unleaded" and "premium unleaded" is on the order of about 20 cents. That is $2.00 every 10 gallons, well worth the additional 2 dollars for the performance factor alone.
If you are the type of person that normally fills up when the tank is reading 1/2 then you will barely notice. If you're the type that lets the fuel level get down to almost empty, then you will see an additional 3 dollars or more at each fill-up.
Check your owners manual, 1992 through 1996 the recommended grade is at least 91 octane, it is furthur stated on the area near the fuel filler cap as a gentle reminder.
Hope this helps you.


vettepilot
 
octane

Yes- the octane is the factor in question. I guess to rephrase my question: If I'm taking a trip somewhere and I don't really care so much about performance (ie. acceleration/top speed) during that trip, would it be a bad idea to use 87 octane just because its cheaper or am I somehow fouling my engine or putting components at risk? I know that its 'recommended' but lots of things are recommended that aren't necessary. I'm interested in the consequences of not using the 'recommended' grade.
Thanks!
-Kevin
 
i guess you could build up carbon deposits in your fuel system by using the 87, the premium or 93 has addatives already in it therefore you wont get much carbon buildup, i dont know about the LT1's but my car is fine on 87 but sometimes i fill it with 93...
 
The LT1 engine has a higher compression than the L98 and previous engines in the C4. The Comp ratio if I remember correctly is 10.4:1, therefore you really should use the higher octane rating. Additionally, the higher octane rated gasolines may have more fuel detergents added VS the lower grade gasoline. However, that may be more of a function of the brand, than the actual grade. Chevron gasoline contains one of the better detergents, it's called Tecron. This can be purchased seperately and added directly to the tank at fill-up. However it's really less expensive to just buy the better grade in the first place.
I gather from your question that this is probably your first true high performance vehicle. You will find that the better you treat it, the better it will return the favor. Like I stated in my first reply, the car will run, but performance will suffer, and ythat means it willl get less MPG, so in the end, on a long trip, you will use more gas, and the lower cost will be offset by more frequent need to refuel. The other thing to consider is this, the computer can compensate just so much, beyond that you could experience premature ignition, and this is, or can be very damaging to your engine components. Everything from burnt pistons, to burned plugs, and that isn't worth saving a few bucks on gas.
Did that come closer to what you were looking for?

vettepilot
 
Yeah, that's closer to the reply I was seeking... just thinking that the few bucks you save each fill up works out to at least a couple hundred yearly- for me anyway. To your point of less MPG for the lower octane, I was wondering about this myself and have been trying to compare avg mileage using both grades of gas. So far, if the MPG calculator is to be believed, I'm not really seeing a significant difference between 87 octane and premium gas.
In considering the point you made regarding 'the computer can compensate just so much' the question becomes: can it compensate enough? I saw that premium is the 'recommended' gas for the vehicle, but I think they would change the text to 'premium gas only' if it was a critical factor. I expect that they recommend premium gas in order to ensure the factory performance numbers are achieveable. This makes you wonder if pontiac applied a factory sticker recommending racing fuel only on a fiero if C&D would report improved performance specs for that car and thereby increase sales.

If the burnt pistons/plugs/detonation you mentioned are a realistic possibility due to using this gas, then its all I need to know, and I will continue to use only premium. If its not realistic, then I may fill up with 87 octane if I'm trying to drive across the country on a budget. As it stands now, I'm going to use premium until I hear otherwise.
Thanks for the info!
-Kevin
 
The only time I put regular in my 92 was when I was about out of gas and the only station for miles around was out of premium. I put in about 5 gallons of regular and headed out. I noticed the pinging noise pretty quickly after getting back on the road when I tried to pass another car. I stopped fairly soon after that and put in all the premium I could get.

One bout of sever pinging and you can put a hole in the top of a piston that will cost you a lot more than you can ever save by buying regular.

At 10.1 or better compression ratio, it needs and deserves premium fuel.
 
Here's some info from the Federal Trade Commission on octane. Looks at the question mostly from the "other" side--does putting higher octane fuel in your car help?--but it has some good info. Detonation is the real threat here, so if you choose to use lower octane gas, keep your ears open. Andy

The Low-Down on High Octane Gasoline

Are you tempted to buy a high octane gasoline for your car because you want to improve its performance? If so, take note: the recommended gasoline for most cars is regular octane. In fact, in most cases, using a higher octane gasoline than your owner’s manual recommends offers absolutely no benefit. It won’t make your car perform better, go faster, get better mileage or run cleaner. Your best bet: listen to your owner’s manual.

The only time you might need to switch to a higher octane level is if your car engine knocks when you use the recommended fuel. This happens to a small percentage of cars.

Unless your engine is knocking, buying higher octane gasoline is a waste of money, too. Premium gas costs 15 to 20 cents per gallon more than regular. That can add up to $100 or more a year in extra costs. Studies indicate that altogether, drivers may be spending hundreds of millions of dollars each year for higher octane gas than they need.

What are octane ratings?
Octane ratings measure a gasoline’s ability to resist engine knock, a rattling or pinging sound that results from premature ignition of the compressed fuel-air mixture in one or more cylinders. Most gas stations offer three octane grades: regular (usually 87 octane), mid-grade (usually 89 octane) and premium (usually 92 or 93). The ratings must be posted on bright yellow stickers on each gasoline pump.

What’s the right octane level for your car?
Check your owner’s manual to determine the right octane level for your car. Regular octane is recommended for most cars. However, some cars with high compression engines, like sports cars and certain luxury cars, need mid-grade or premium gasoline to prevent knock.

How can you tell if you’re using the right octane level?
Listen to your car’s engine. If it doesn’t knock when you use the recommended octane, you’re using the right grade of gasoline.

Will higher octane gasoline clean your engine better?
As a rule, high octane gasoline does not outperform regular octane in preventing engine deposits from forming, in removing them, or in cleaning your car’s engine. In fact, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency requires that all octane grades of all brands of gasoline contain engine cleaning detergent additives to protect against the build-up of harmful levels of engine deposits during the expected life of your car.

Should you ever switch to a higher octane gasoline?
A few car engines may knock or ping — even if you use the recommended octane. If this happens, try switching to the next highest octane grade. In many cases, switching to the mid-grade or premium-grade gasoline will eliminate the knock. If the knocking or pinging continues after one or two fill-ups, you may need a tune-up or some other repair. After that work is done, go back to the lowest octane grade at which your engine runs without knocking.

Is knocking harmful?
Occasional light knocking or pinging won’t harm your engine, and doesn’t indicate a need for higher octane. But don’t ignore severe knocking. A heavy or persistent knock can lead to engine damage.

Is all "premium" or "regular" gasoline the same?
The octane rating of gasoline marked "premium" or "regular" is not consistent across the country. One state may require a minimum octane rating of 92 for all premium gasoline, while another may allow 90 octane to be called premium. To make sure you know what you’re buying, check the octane rating on the yellow sticker on the gas pump instead of relying on the name "premium" or "regular."
 
If you really want to satisfy yourself that you are doing the best thing for accomplishing both aspects of your question try this: Let your fuel level get down to where the low fuel light is just beginning to illuminate, then add 5 gallons of regular unleaded. Drive it around for a while, if you notice lots of pinging , knocking, noticeable loss of power, or rough idle and or stumbling on acceleration, go to the next higher grade (mid-grade 89). try 5 gallons of that grade, and see if there is a noticeable improvement. If there is, and you can live with it, then you could try mid-grade as your choice of fuel grade. But remember that at higher speeds, due to road and wind noise, you may not hear premature ignition if it is occurring.
Even if you save $200.00 / year on the cost of fuel, that wouldn't begin to pay for a set of damaged pistons, and would barely cover the cost and aggravation of having to change out the spark plugs early if they get burnt from preignition problems.
That by the way is an estimate on the parts and labor for changing out 8 plugs if you don't do the work yourself. If you have never changed the plugs on an LT1, you won't appreciate the aggrevation until you try it.
Well, your're armed with lots of information, and advice so now it's up to you to see what you want to do. Good Luck, and best wishes on your new ride. :beer

vettepilot
 
As many others wrote....

You should always be using 'Premium' or around 91-93 octane in a stock engine. Don't use 'regular' as you can do some expensive damage. Plus, especially if you've got over 50,000 miles, I recommend regular use of a good fuel injector additive every once in a while. I recently used a bottle of Valvoline Syntec fuel injector/system cleaner. It always seems to run a little peppier after I do that.

Vette's, even stock, are not a normal grocery getter engine. They are high performance at any level. You should treat them as such.

Also, in a stock engine, you don't really want to go much over 94-95 octane for similar reasons. A stock engine is high performance, but overkill on the fuel can be gamaging as well.

Just stick with good 'premium' brand fuel.

Another benefit to the higher octane brand, is that they rarely find water in the gas as much as in cheaper regular. They know they are more likely to get sued if they ruin a sports car owners 'little baby', so you are more likely to get your money's worth.

Vette's are 'garbage eater's' like more standard engines are becoming these days.

Like you've been told by numerous other replys, all gas in the U.S. is unleaded these days, so you're buying unleaded at the pump regardless of what grade you choose.

Regarding octane boosters with lead, they're not necessary for stock street applications. You don't really gain any performance, and it won't last long if you do. Likewise, you'll find yourself replacing the plugs and worse yet, the injectors if you use fuel not normally intended for them.

Pay the extra 2-5 pennies for premium and drive a happy Vette.

:Silly
 
Yes, when I wrote 'unleaded' i meant 87 octane as I mentioned earlier. Everybody has a theory about the importance of octane in fuel- AmosF16 is the only member I've seen post factual data in this thread. I'm sorry that I'm a little skeptical but its in my nature- and there's so much BS marketing schemes in operation today, I just wonder sometimes. I have run both types of gas in my car and as I've posted, there is no noticible change in economy or knocking in my car. Admittedly, my 'tests' are not performed in a lab or even very scientific, but they do indicate to me that the performance differences are minor.

With that said, I prefer to err on the side of caution in this case and as I wrote before, I will be filling up with premium gas until I can confirm otherwise. I would still be interested to see some scientific evidence or hear from a vetern mechanic exactly what has occured to vettes that use 87 octane. (real experience- not theory).

I've recently learned about what a scam Engine additives such as slick 50 and PTFE are. This is the type of scam I hope to avoid and I wonder if fuel additives are in the same category.

As for rarely finding water in the gas- I don't know if the fear of lawsuits is driving that distinction, but I would be surprised if it was true. Do you have evidence of this or is it your own theory? Also, what do you mean by 'garbage eaters'? Does this mean they will run garbage fuel or will be damaged if they 'eat garbage'? :confused

Finally, i don't know where you live, but here in Illinois the cost of premium over 87 is typically 20 cents, not 2-5 as you stated. Just a FYI as I don't want to exadgerate any of my #'s.

Thanks for the info all! And remember, I'm USING PREMIUM- I'm just a skeptic- sorry!
-Kevin:beer
 
My .02 (and GM's)

Actually, my recommendations are based on my experience in owning high performance engines for 30 years, plus GM's (Chevy's) recommendations as to what to use in the car.

Your owner's manual will state to use premium unleaded in your car. I don't recall what year you have, but to my recollection, the suggested grade is also stamped next to the filler cap. I have a 94 LT1 and the verbage "Premium Recommended" (in English and French) is embossed to the right of the filler well.

Regarding "Garbage eaters", I was referring to what run of the mill engines are being designed to run on. All Vette's and other sports cars all recommend using a premium grade. That was a bit of a typo on my part. (I should proof read my stuff more often. Type too fast, etc.). Engines are being designed to run on as widely varying grade as possible without getting detuned because of sub-standard fuel, different altitudes traveling, etc. This way a motorists is less likely to have problems on the road. For example, did you ever drive from a sea-level environment to the Rockies, turn off your car, then were unable to start it again? That used to be common, but now computer controlled engines and dynamically adjustable fuel systems virtually 'tune themselves' to changes in atmosphere these days. Except Vette's and other high performance cars still prefer to use a higher grade of fuel and will run better if setup to drive in a compatible atmosphere.

OUCH! 20 cents difference! I live in Texas. Yes, we generally do have better gas prices than most of the rest of the country that I've seen. I think the biggest difference I've seen between 87 and 93 octane is around 8-10 cents here. But I know the rest of the country, and especially states without much oil interest do have a higher base price and tax rate on gas.

Regarding 'fuel additives', I don't recommend them. Fuel system 'cleaners' are what I was referring to. I good brand like Valvoline or such is OK to run every once in a while in an older Vette. Additives that claim better performance in my opinion are a complete waste. And real additives, such as products that add lead or boost octane should not be used unless you engine is modified from stock (higher compression, cam, etc.) or modified for race applications only.

Hope this clears my comments up.

But it sounds like you're using premium anyway and that is what is suggested.

Vette's are more than an average car so expect to spend more, use better quality as well as enjoy driving more and having fun in your car.

Go out and smoke a 'Stang for dinner!

:crazy
 
Okay then. New topic:

Well, as vettepilot said, I have lots of information now and I pretty much consider the conversation ended- but feel free to add to the thread any thoughts or experiences you've had...

Part of the conversation did remind me of an issue I have with my vette, so rather than start a new thread I will just ask here:

I got this vette off ebay, flew to Dallas, TX to pick it up and drive it home. I discovered (half way through Arkansas) that it runs out of gas with 3-4 bars still showing even before the warning light goes on! Also, it seems to stay filled an unusually long time before fuel bars start dropping. Is there an easy way to calibrate my gas gauge for a more accurate reading?
Thanks!
-kevin
 
I fill with 93 Octane, then at 1/2 tank I top it off with 89 Octane.
The car runs fine on the 91 mix...and I save a dollar.
Every $ helps :L :w
 

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