"Cool" A/C R12 to 134a Conversion Kit

[21again]

WOW !!! Am I excited. I went to NAPA last weekend to inquire on what "conversion" kit(s) they have to sell (thinking Compressor, Accumulator, etc..) so I can get my undercharged, blowing 80 degree air out the vents A/C to work again. I'm not interested in going on the black market to find R12 at mega $$$ then only have it leak back out during the winter and do it all over again next year. Anyway, the guy behind the counter pointed to a small "R12 to 134a" Conversion Kit on the shelf behind me. It was selling for $29.95 and includes 3lbs. of 134a, some special R12 to 134a Oil, the conversion fittings, and other various stuff. Being very leary, I couldn't believe this $30 kit was going to actually work. He assured me that it would as long as my current system was intact. Well I bought it figuring I've blown $30 faster than this before - might as well try it. So, I went over to my buddies shop (we all have a buddy like this right?) who has the 134a servicing machine with the vacuum pump, guages, etc. We evaucated the small amount of R12 (properly of course) then added the special oil that came in the kit, the 3 cans of 134a, and then about another pound from his big 134a tank. (It needed 3.75lbs of 134a to charge my '81 'vette). It worked GREAT !!! I've been driving it daily since Saturday with the air on and so far so good. I've got 45 degree air coming out of the vents, I can't remember it being this cold with the R12!!! The way I figure it - if it leaks out now over the winter big deal, I'll go to Wal-Mart and pick up a case of 134a cans for $10 and I'll be good to go.

 

[Tom73]

If it is leaking you still need to get that fixed. R-134a is not good for the enviroment either. Just that it is not as bad as R-12 (or so they say )

tom...

 

[JonM]

You can get a leak detector at the same place you bought the charging system...here is one

http://www.id-usa.com/uvleak.htm

 

[vette-dude]

What all comes in the conversion kit?? I am having my 91 C-4 serviced this Sat. It blows cold but not as cold as it should. I think it only needs a top off with R-12 but am considering going ahead and having it converted over. The cost of the R-12 alone would pay most of the cost. And to think I used to buy R-12 for under $10 for a case of 12 cans. Anyone got thoughts on this dilemma feel free to chime in.

Randy;help

 

[Tom73]

Vette-Dude,
If there is nothing wrong with the system, I would stay with R-12. Yep, it cost more but it is only toping off and not a recharge. The system was designed for R-12 and will perform better with it. But when you have a major blowout or component failure, then I would convert.

Just my 2 cents worth.

tom...

 

[vette-dude]

Tom,

That's kinda the dierection I am leaning too. Thanks for the reply.

Randy

 

[searay270]

Just be sure the old 525 oil is properly purged or blown out of the system, especially the condenser which tends to trap oil, and it is best to change the dehydrator and expansion valve orifice, if equipped. This may not be necessary with a POA TXV system, but oil does collect in the bottom of the condenser and in the dehydrator desicant. There are 2 types of oils - ester and PAG, and I think the PAG is what can stand a few drops of 525 oil without problems.

Another concern is the older hoses are porous to 134, but not r-12 due to much smaller molecular size of the refrigerant molecules. The O-rings are also susceptable to leakage unless changed.

Also, only 80% of a charge of 134A is required when compared to R-12, so it is best to charge with the guages attached to avoid high head pressures.

I spent $500 converting a 1977 Olds to 134A, learning the hard way at each step, and most knowledgable people suggest sticking with the R-12 even with the higher cost of refrigerant. I decided against switching my 72 and 93 - just hoping they hold.

Best of luck

Jack

 

[21again]

I'm not saying it's leaking, just if it does it will be a lot cheaper than trying to find R12. What I am saying is that its been almost a week without any problems/leaks - all for $30. (Fixing a leak, or replacing a hose is much cheaper than a full blown conversion)

 

[Tom73]

Another concern is the older hoses are porous to 134, but not r-12 due to much smaller molecular size of the refrigerant molecules. The O-rings are also susceptable to leakage unless changed.

The hoses are not a problem with R-134a. It is HCFC-22 that requires barrier hoses. Link: http://www.epa.gov/spdpublc/snap/refrigerants/macssubs.html

tom...

 

[Jack]

The way I figure it - if it leaks out now over the winter big deal, I'll go to Wal-Mart and pick up a case of 134a cans for $10 and I'll be good to go.

R134a ain't $10/case at wallyworld ... it's about $5/can .. still pretty cheap & readily available. The relative low cost & availability make it quite attractive & practical.

-EDIT- While in Sam's Club (wallyworld division) Friday ... I see case of 12 cans R134a is just under $22.
JACK:gap

 

[69MyWay]

I am an a/c junkie. Not because I am a qualified educated expert, but because I love a/c, and I love fixing them with my shade tree methods.

When they stopped making R12 available, I was crushed. I never believed 134 would really work.

Why it can really be done...I don't know, because most experts agree that on paper...converting to 134 with a quickie $30 kit should not work.

I use an old compressor from a home freezer unit with a pair of connectors soldiered to it to evacuate my systems. In fact, we just did a 92 caddilac last night. We put a new compressor, drier, and orphis, and pumped it with 134. ICE COLD baby!

What is really ironic, is my 95 3500 truck came with R134. Of all my vehicles, it is the only one I have serviced (the high pressure switch blew out of the compressor, and it lost its charge), that does not work 100% right...and it was ALWAYS 134..... (compressor is VERY noisy--but it blows freakin cold).

Most people willing to try the $30 conversion weigh out the options....$2,000 to have local shop redue the system to stock, or $30, plus a few hours at your buddies house that has a pump....and, well, the choice is obvious.

 

[Michel73]

A friend and myself are going tomorrow to work on our A/C's (both 73's). I hope we can get them nice and cold like y'all did. But I guess only time and labor will tell

Save the Wave

 

[Ken73]

I've done a few A/C systems myself.. the $30 kit *does* work if you have replaced the necessary parts. I completely re-did the A/C in my '82 a while back, and filled it with R134a, and it blows cold. I also replaced a few parts in my grandmother's 1984 Caprice and IT blows cold. Both were done with the $30 kit, BUT I had replaced the parts that were leaking/broken and evacuated it with a vacuum pump.

If you have an expansion-valve (orifice tube) type system, I suggest a Smart VOV. Look on www.aircondition.com for it. (That website is also a good reference for people wanting to service their A/C systems.)

 

[Michel73]

Has anyone heard of 410-A (Hot Shot)? I know an A/C guy that says it's a direct replacement for R12. It should be compatable with the oil in these old systems.


Michel

 

[Ken73]

Has anyone heard of 410-A (Hot Shot)? I know an A/C guy that says it's a direct replacement for R12. It should be compatable with the oil in these old systems.


Michel

I wouldn't go with any weird aftermarket stuff. First off, you're supposed to drain all the R12 out anyway - upgrading to R134a isn't much different. Not to mention it's more expensive - at least with R134a, you don't need a license and you can go to WalMart and pick up a couple of cans if you need them.

 

[Tom73]

Has anyone heard of 410-A (Hot Shot)? I know an A/C guy that says it's a direct replacement for R12. It should be compatable with the oil in these old systems.

Hot Shot is a blend. It is made up of 50% HCFC-22 (the one that requires barrier hoses), 39% HCFC-124, 9.5% HCFC-142b, and 1.5% isobutane (yep, butane).

Is it a direct replacement for R-12. Let's see. First there is no such thing as a direct replacement for R-12, so no. Second, you will have to replace all the hoses, so no. You will need to evac the system, change the hoses, replace the seals, replace the dryer, and then recharge after pulling the necessary vacumn.

tom...