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- #21
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VETDRMS
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I was looking at the AFR's, but my main consideration is cost. I can get the dart pro 1 bare castings for 399 per head. How much does the AFR 190 cost?
AKRAY4PLAY
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2001
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- 584
- Location
- Wasilla, Alaska, U.S.A.
- Corvette
- '77 L-82, black on black. Full mod 406 small block
i believe the AFR 195's are $1100 to $1200 and that is complete. i am pretty sure they come with Manly stainless valves along with iron seats, good valve stem seals, springs, guide plates, rocker studs and bronze guides. look at the website i posted for you, they have a PDF file with all the prices. AFR makes a great head, and they are expandable friendly. there is room for major improvement like a blower, turbo or nitrious. FC3 posted some real nice pictures of his AFR 195's, have you had a chance to see them yet?? bottom line, the Darts and AFRs are real close in price, but the AFRs out flow the Darts. if you really want to pump your 383 to the max, i would also put deck plugs in the cylinder decks. you can drill the middle of the plugs to the head gasket size for water passage, just helps stabilize things a little beter, Brian
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- #23
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VETDRMS
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The AFR 195 68cc Angle Plug Heads part number 1025
are indeed $1250.
My only concern with the complete head is the cheap parts usually used. I wanted to use the pro flow undercut swirl polished valves.
I am a little leary of not using the recommend springs for the cam I'm using. I will call Comp Cams and ask them if the spring provided with the AFR heads would be sufficient.
If I got the AFR bare heads, do they have CNC chambers/exhaust/intake?? Also, how good is the support with repairs, ect. Dart has a very good reputation and actually better flow numbers on the intake side. And only around 8cfm less on the exhaust, this is with AS CAST runners.
Its pretty much up in the air. Thanks, you made my decision that much tougher!
are indeed $1250.
My only concern with the complete head is the cheap parts usually used. I wanted to use the pro flow undercut swirl polished valves.
I am a little leary of not using the recommend springs for the cam I'm using. I will call Comp Cams and ask them if the spring provided with the AFR heads would be sufficient.
If I got the AFR bare heads, do they have CNC chambers/exhaust/intake?? Also, how good is the support with repairs, ect. Dart has a very good reputation and actually better flow numbers on the intake side. And only around 8cfm less on the exhaust, this is with AS CAST runners.
Its pretty much up in the air. Thanks, you made my decision that much tougher!
AKRAY4PLAY
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2001
- Messages
- 584
- Location
- Wasilla, Alaska, U.S.A.
- Corvette
- '77 L-82, black on black. Full mod 406 small block
Travis,
the AFR heads do not come with junk parts. they are assembled with the goods. give them a call, you will find out they are very good to deal with. my 210 race heads came with swirl polished manly stainless valves and great triple springs rated for .850 lift. the stock AFR 195s come with springs for .550 lift and 120 lbs on seat. i was totally impressed with every detail related to the heads. on the AFR site, the PDF pricing file has all the different optional parts and different CNC porting configurations for the heads. with 70% CNC, nothing outflows the AFRs. this info is coming from my parts guy that sponsors several racers and owns his own top of the line flow bench. he is not brand loyal and tests every thing on his flow bench. he did say that AFR was the best at reporting actual flow numbers, and all the engine configurations AFR and himself put together (mirror engines) are very close on the dyno. check with some race guys, they may make your decision easier, sorry for the hard choice, but i think the AFRs are better but it is your money! do some calling and some hard studying of Dart's and AFR's websites. there is a lot of info there, Brian
the AFR heads do not come with junk parts. they are assembled with the goods. give them a call, you will find out they are very good to deal with. my 210 race heads came with swirl polished manly stainless valves and great triple springs rated for .850 lift. the stock AFR 195s come with springs for .550 lift and 120 lbs on seat. i was totally impressed with every detail related to the heads. on the AFR site, the PDF pricing file has all the different optional parts and different CNC porting configurations for the heads. with 70% CNC, nothing outflows the AFRs. this info is coming from my parts guy that sponsors several racers and owns his own top of the line flow bench. he is not brand loyal and tests every thing on his flow bench. he did say that AFR was the best at reporting actual flow numbers, and all the engine configurations AFR and himself put together (mirror engines) are very close on the dyno. check with some race guys, they may make your decision easier, sorry for the hard choice, but i think the AFRs are better but it is your money! do some calling and some hard studying of Dart's and AFR's websites. there is a lot of info there, Brian
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- #25
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VETDRMS
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Thanks, studying is something I am quite used too, and in this arena I do a lot! I am leaning toward the AFR's, for some obvious reasons you stated. Actual cost if I were to use my own components would be $1170. Which is great, and for a head that has CNC Chambers/Exhaust/Partial Intake, that is phenominal.
The exhaust ports on the AFR's are amazing.
My only concern is the 120lbs seat pressure. Comp specifically calls for 105 seat and 310 open.
Also, my crane energizer full roller rockers cannot be used with
spring pressures much over 350lbs.
I would LOVE to go to a roller cam, but the cost involved is beyond the scope of this project. I am not too worried about adjustments on the solid cam, the lock nuts work fairly well, and
I don't mind checking them. Most other corvette people I talk to set them once a season. I store my car during winter, which would include backing off all the rockers, so I would have to
reset the valves once a year anyways. Plus I like the sound
of the solids and the extra power is close to a roller.
Thanks again, I do trust your input and know it is coming from a background with more experiance than me.
You have almost swayed me, I will get on the phone and handle some knit-picking specifics like I always do.
Can't wait till driving season comes back!
Oh, as far as engine building, engine dynamics, I am thoroughly in the learning stages, but I am eager and always willing to absorb beneficial information! This will be my second engine built (first one was only run for 2500 miles!) and i'm looking forward to doing all those "i wish i would of-s" this time around!
I am leaning toward the AFR's, for some obvious reasons you stated. Actual cost if I were to use my own components would be $1170. Which is great, and for a head that has CNC Chambers/Exhaust/Partial Intake, that is phenominal.The exhaust ports on the AFR's are amazing.
My only concern is the 120lbs seat pressure. Comp specifically calls for 105 seat and 310 open.
Also, my crane energizer full roller rockers cannot be used with
spring pressures much over 350lbs.
I would LOVE to go to a roller cam, but the cost involved is beyond the scope of this project. I am not too worried about adjustments on the solid cam, the lock nuts work fairly well, and
I don't mind checking them. Most other corvette people I talk to set them once a season. I store my car during winter, which would include backing off all the rockers, so I would have to
reset the valves once a year anyways. Plus I like the sound
of the solids and the extra power is close to a roller.
Thanks again, I do trust your input and know it is coming from a background with more experiance than me.
You have almost swayed me, I will get on the phone and handle some knit-picking specifics like I always do.
Can't wait till driving season comes back!
Oh, as far as engine building, engine dynamics, I am thoroughly in the learning stages, but I am eager and always willing to absorb beneficial information! This will be my second engine built (first one was only run for 2500 miles!) and i'm looking forward to doing all those "i wish i would of-s" this time around!
- Thread starter
- #26
V
VETDRMS
Guest
Oh, in case your wondering, here are a few pics of my baby.
Its been a LOT of work, but the results have been quite fulfilling.
oh, and one of my baby with my baby.
it took much grovelling to get this picture
hehehe
:BOW :BOW :BOW :cu
Its been a LOT of work, but the results have been quite fulfilling.
oh, and one of my baby with my baby.
it took much grovelling to get this picture
hehehe:BOW :BOW :BOW :cu
AKRAY4PLAY
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2001
- Messages
- 584
- Location
- Wasilla, Alaska, U.S.A.
- Corvette
- '77 L-82, black on black. Full mod 406 small block
Travis,
Nice pics!! i like the color scheme you have going along with the wheels, VERY NICE RIDE! as far as budget rotating assembly, have you looked at Eagle's stuff?? they are pretty good on prices and have top quality parts. you are doing very good for only your first motor!! i tip my hat to you. all the hard stuff is done for your 383, just need to work out the details from here. you'll get it right. my car is in a video on the following link. look under "Videos" located under the cartoon shark. my video is on page 3 under my username of AKRAY4PLAY. i think you will like the clip. sorry it is a little commercialized, it was filmed for a promo for my buddy's snowmachine riding video. it is so easy to spend money on tires with 600hp. http://www.c3sharktank.com/. enjoy, Brian
Nice pics!! i like the color scheme you have going along with the wheels, VERY NICE RIDE! as far as budget rotating assembly, have you looked at Eagle's stuff?? they are pretty good on prices and have top quality parts. you are doing very good for only your first motor!! i tip my hat to you. all the hard stuff is done for your 383, just need to work out the details from here. you'll get it right. my car is in a video on the following link. look under "Videos" located under the cartoon shark. my video is on page 3 under my username of AKRAY4PLAY. i think you will like the clip. sorry it is a little commercialized, it was filmed for a promo for my buddy's snowmachine riding video. it is so easy to spend money on tires with 600hp. http://www.c3sharktank.com/. enjoy, Brian
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