discontinued items

[eddie20875]

my intent when i posted this was not to get people at each other's throat. we have had people saying how long can you expect them to have an item, they can't be worried about one or two of them that might be needed, etc.

well from what i can see from looking for this item and what i have read...1) it's more than one or two parts that are needed and 2) that there were problems related to this part from heat.

the point that aggravates me is that the part may be for an older car but with it tied in with the computer system makes it basically a needed part to have the car running properly and as was said with the problems caused to it by heat (which is probably true due to where it is located) they don't make them available or a substitution for it.

if they have plans for redesigning it so as to bypass the heat issue then they should have the originals available until the new ones are made, be it gm or an aftermarket company. it's almost as if they want you to throw away the car.

i have other things that were "top of the line" and had a bad design to them rendering them unusable. someone came up with th redesigned part to correct the problem and it didn't bother me to pay for the part as i didn't have to trash the unit.

hope everyone can understand my gripe. i get the impression that it is more than just me that may need this part.

 

[Key West Jack]

I think you have a legit concern but on the other hand the auto companies can't stock everything indefinitely. It is merely a matter of economics. Thats why I am interested to see how Silver 80's project works out. I hope he is sucessful and shares the result of his fine work.

 

[SoLow]

do you know the GM part number for this part?

http://www.vintageparts.org/

Type it in here and see if they have it. These people are the ones who buy all of the "old stock" ie: after 10 years from GM,Ford Mopar, and the list goes on and on as well as the OEM who made the part to begin with! This is where I go first before I go looking for a used discontinued part for any car

 

[vee93]

Same goes for certain hoses and the ECM. I just had the worst of times trying to track down an ECM. This experience has me thinking for the 1st time that it might just be time to start looking for a newer model Vette. The discontinuation of parts is in a league of it's own when it comes to frustration. Not the same as tracking down some gremlin in the car. Good thing MSD makes a reputable Optispark.

 

[John Robinson]

Mr. Robinson...
When did you work for GM and in what part of the Corporation did you work?

Also, please cite the Federal law that requires a car company to maintain tooling and supply parts from that tooling.

I do not want to continue this discussion as it is turning into a postureing contest. I simply stated what I knew to be the rules under which I worked. My intent was to add a new perspective to the issue. I hope you will forgive me for creating a controversal post.

 

[Key West Jack]

Same goes for certain hoses and the ECM. I just had the worst of times trying to track down an ECM. This experience has me thinking for the 1st time that it might just be time to start looking for a newer model Vette. The discontinuation of parts is in a league of it's own when it comes to frustration. Not the same as tracking down some gremlin in the car. Good thing MSD makes a reputable Optispark.

It is frustrating but forums like this do help narrow a search.

 

[silver 80]

I think I'm going to try and relocate it to a cooler palce in the engine compartment, when the time comes. When I do get it the part in I'll try it out on my 87 first.
this will determin if I get the emision harness for my 80.
tom

 

[Hib Halverson]

I do not want to continue this discussion as it is turning into a posturing contest. I simply stated what I knew to be the rules under which I worked. My intent was to add a new perspective to the issue. I hope you will forgive me for creating a controversial post.

My intent is not to posture but it is to understand the facts. I also think this is an important discussion to have on the CAC.

For many, many years, I've heard this urban myth about Federal statute requiring parts support for ten years. Yet, a while back ago I did some limited research and was unable to find any such Federal law. The only Federal regulations that even come close are those relating to "emissions related parts" and their Federally-mandated warranties and they do not mandate a specific length of time for parts support, they just require manufacturer to warrant emissions-related parts for a certain mileage. Obviously, to warrant a part like an EGR valve for, say, 75,000 miles, the manufacturer would have to be able to supply it for the time it would take for the average owner to drive the vehicle that distance.

The other reason I am skeptical about the existence of this law is that there are too many cases of GM-SPO discontinuing parts when doing so would be in violation of this supposed law.

I am critical of some of GM's decisions to end parts support for low volume products simply because of the cost. I was not aware of the SSR parts problem but, it doesn't surprise me. Those buying C6 Z06es and those planning on buying ZR-1s (the new version), if they are the type of people who buy a unique car like that to keep for long time, need to consider the purchase carefully and understand that the more limited-production the car is and the more complex its systems are, the more likely parts support could become a problem. With the last ZR-1s, the parts shortage has become such a problem that, in general, ZR-1s are worth more when they are parted-out than they are as a whole vehicle. Will owners of 2009 ZR-1s have that problem in 2016?

In the past, when parts run out, in some cases, eventually the Corvette aftermarket ponies up the money to "reproduce" a part, however, as time goes on and cars with increasingly-complex electronics begin to suffer parts shortages, that may not happen as often. Take the lateral acceleration sensors used in the antilock brake system (ABS) from 90-96 on C4. They were discontinued about six months ago. The core of that part is a swinging mass and a Hall-effect switch. This would not be a part which would be cheap to reproduce. I am skeptical of the aftermarket's willingness to make the capital investment necessary to reproduce rather complex electro-mechanical parts like that.

A C4 ABS will not work without that part and, if you have one fail, your only alternative is finding a used one or taking out the Service ABS light bulb.

Another ABS example is the modulator valves for the 95-96 base C4s. They're discontinued from GM and not available from the aftermarket...however...NAPA claims that it will begin to market a remanufactured brake valve for those cars in the near future. Again, the ABS modulator valve would be an expensive part to reproduce. Hope that NAPA steps up with a reman.

It's possible for *anyone* to join CAC, state they are retired-GM, then make statements about how General Motors works. That is why I asked the questions of Mr. Robinson. While I can sympathize with his not wanting to "posture", it's unfortunate that he did not feel the need to answer.

As for the 90 EGR solenoid, while I am not familiar with that specific part, if GM doesn't have it, as it's for a 17 year old car, they're probably not going to retool and make more. While it is emissions related, after 17 years, the emission warranty requirement is long ended. If there's no substitute and the aftermarket has no part available--and I assume the unit on "national back order" is an aftermarket solenoid--then your option in the short term is to try and find a used one in a wrecking yard. An alternative might be to use one off a later, 3rd gen Camaro with an LB9 or L98 engine, if it interchanges.

Running with the EGR inoperative is not a good choice. The engine will not run properly if the EGR system isn't working because, typically, the engine spark curve is too aggressive at part throttle for it to run, detonation-free without exhaust gas recirculation. To a limited extend the engine's knock retard may reduce that problem but then the engine will run warm with timing retarded. Lastly in states which require a BAR97 type exhaust emissions test, a car with inop EGR is likely to flunk the test.

 

[ejball]

Hib, Sorry I do not have the official documentation either, but I was an Engineer in an Agricultural company (Tractors). Our large volume products were 10,000 units a year. It was understood that all parts had to be serviced for a minimum of 10 years no matter how low the volume was. I worked with the service group who had to find suppliers for these parts when a supplier went out of bussiness and many times they had to go to unique solutions to get cost effective parts for the customers. It does not help that all the aftermarket suppliers go after the high moving parts and leave the low volume, low profit to the OEM. As a customer of GM, my 1988 corvette, I was recently frustrated that I could not find an OEM EPROM, but could easily find it for $200 from aftermarket suppliers (cost less than $10 to produce). However, the ECM used in several GM products I found for $140 available from GM. Supply and demand will dictate where these part supplies go, I'm sure someone out there has a way to modify an EGR to work in this vet application or another work around to keep it on the road or maybe it becomes worth more to make it a supply car for the rest of us needing parts?