First car is a pain

[tscott9330]

When I started this little adventure, I knew very little practical knowledge about car restoration, Which in hind site is what led me to buy the car I did. Don't get me wrong, I love my car but the more parts I pull off, the more I find wrong with her. I will finish this project, even if it kills me.

Today as I was pulling the doors off to lighten the body I noticed a bit of rust on the bird cage. I began to poke at it with a screw driver and lo and behold there was a pretty good amount of hole and not so much bird cage. This is the first thing in this project that has made me nervous. I am not sure if I have enough know how to get the bird cage taken apart from the body and then get it back together.

So I am going to start asking questions. Any input is appreciated, especially from 69MYWAY and the few others who have attempted this feat.


1. Is there any way to fix the bird cage without pulling the car apart? (unfortunatly I think I know the answer to that one)

2. If I do decide to try this, should I do this before pulling the body off the frame?

3. I am having a hard time finding where the fiberglass starts and the metal begins, Is the metal covered by fiberglass or is it just painted to match?

4. How do you stick the darn thing back together once its all said and done?



any help is GREATLY appreciated

Tom

 

[crause]

Tom,

My name is Andy and I am a new vette owner too (75 convertible). I couldn't help but laugh when I read your post. I feel that we must be experiencing similar stress. Everytime I touch one thing I find 3 more that need to be fixed. They all start out as little projects and wind up costing hundreds of dollars. I searched and searched for my "dream car" and finally found it in
Wisconsin (I live in Louisiana). This car only had 39k miles and looked perfect. I had it inspected in Wisconsin and all checked out. The guy told me it needed things but was in good condition. I am finding out that everything on this car is the original, hoses,vacuum lines, gas lines, power steering lines, heater core (which busted when I got it home) and so on and so on........ Those things have not bothered me so much but there is one thing that is starting to concern me, RUST! When I am under the car poking around, I am finding a lot of loose rust flakes accumulated in pockets like inside the frame or other places that don't get flushed out. I have not found any "soft metal" but wonder where all this rust flake is coming from. The car seems very solid. The guy I bought it from had the under carriage "under-coated. I hope this was to protect it and not to hide anything. Now I am afraid to look too hard in case I find something I don't want to find.
I spent more than I should have on the car but thought it a good investment. If it winds up being a pile of rust, I could be in financial trouble.
Let me know if I can be of any moral support. Sometimes just knowing that someone else is going through the same thing helps.

 

[bossvette]

I too found some rust in the birdcage area of my 76 I cleaned up as much as I could and used generous ammounts of por-15 where ever I could apply it. Fortunatly I had no frame rust I did replace the radiator support and trashed the pop-ups my heat shields look ratty(I put insulation under the carpet to help with heat) and plan to drive the car until I get another (or the windshield pops out:L )
as far as fixing the birdcage without taking the body off, I dont know, someone in our club has replaced the windshield frame (part way down the cage) without disassembling the whole car.
My opinion is as long as it is not a safety issue, clean it up and por-15 it untill you can do the proper job.
You are not alone
Craig sr

 

[Bob Chadwick]

We are all experiencing this to a certain extent. I should buy stcok in the POR15 company as I go through frame on rustproofing. This was just a start. I have also done this to the floor pans and several other places. Basically, if I pull a piece and get access to metal, whether rusty or not, I cover it with POR15 and top coat it.

My current project has the spare tire tub out. Everything under there will have Metal Ready, POR15 and a top coat before it goes back together.

I've been lucky. My car just has surface rust. You wouldn't believe what some of the members are going through.

Bob

 

[Enigma]

Check out a members site here and you get an idea of what's involved:

http://www.mcspeed.homestead.com/Photo_Gallery.html

Have Fun

Enigma

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

If you've got enough rust at the bottom that you can poke holes, chances are that the top of the windshield frame is even worse. I went through this nightmare on my C3 and spent more money fixing it than I'll ever recover if I sell.

Removing the birdcage from the car is a pretty formidable task and requires a frame off approach, but that's usually what's required. I've got a 100 page photo album of the surgery performed on mine. Pretty scary stuff.

Sorry for the discouraging news.

 

[jeff72]

72 rusted windshield frame

Hello,

Boy I wouldn't mind seeing those photos -do you have a web site? I have a 72 convertible with bad rust at the frame/dash area -i think it keeps getting worse every year.

jeff

If you've got enough rust at the bottom that you can poke holes, chances are that the top of the windshield frame is even worse. I went through this nightmare on my C3 and spent more money fixing it than I'll ever recover if I sell.

Removing the birdcage from the car is a pretty formidable task and requires a frame off approach, but that's usually what's required. I've got a 100 page photo album of the surgery performed on mine. Pretty scary stuff.

Sorry for the discouraging news.

 

[BarryK]

I have to agree with Vettehead.......... if you are already seeing rust in the exposed areas, the hidden areas could easily be much worse. You could TRY just coating with POR15 but you are just covering up the problem and not actually fixing it and it will not help the hidden areas of the birdcage.
As mentioned, getting access to the birdcage is a major undertaking and requires removal of the body from the frame than removel of the body panels off the birdcage. Once that's done you can patch all areas of the cage and coat it with POR15 and you will know it's fine. Otherwise, with areas of the cage already rusted thru enough to allow to to poke holes in it it's only going to continue to get worse.
As much of a PITA it is to repair the cage (and getting to it is 95% of the hassle of the repair) do it now while you are already working on the restoration. The last thing you really want to do is finish everything else on the car knowing in the back of your mind that you are going to still have to pull the body off, pull the entire interior out, remove the body panels from the cage, repair the cage, and put the car back together. Bite the bullet and do it now before you get too far along with the other areas of the car.

 

[JohnZ]

Birdcage rust issues can get really ugly and expensive, as Mikey can attest to; it generally starts at the base of the windshield corners, works its way down the hinge pillar, then eats the horizontal sills out from under the car, and all of these steel panels are covered by fiberglass body panels, which hide the progress of the rust. Repairs of this nature require the services of a professional who REALLY knows Corvette body structure, and are VERY expensive and time-consuming, as replacement steel panels either have to be fabricated from scratch or cut out of a donor car; it's not unusual to have those repairs cost far more than the car is worth. Frequently the smart way out is to just sell the car. The birdcage parts in the photo below are from a GOOD one. :ugh

 

[jeff72]

Any idea of worst case cost scenerio? My rust is visible from door jams where the dash meets the A-frame pillar. I'm getting nervous.....

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

I just posted the same info on a similar thread- moderate to worst case is $10K plus. :ugh