Fluids???

[Yoda]

This morning at the local Coffee Shop, a few of us were discussing what we do to our cars, that sit most of the winter months. Is there anything special anyone does before, effectively, parking them for a few months?

I mentioned that I always drain the Master Cylinder, Power Steering Pump and ever 2 or 3 years I drain and change the anti-freeze. I was asked WHY change the MC fluid and the PS fluid, and suggested it was stupid to change the Anti-Freeze in the fall, if the car is sitting.

I answered... Well I've always changed the MC fluid and thought it was a good idea because it helped cut down on moisture possibility as well the PS fluid. One of the more seasoned HotRodders and by far more occomplished mechanic than yours truely, laughed when I explained my reasoning.

He said the MC is a "Reserve" for the brake system, and the only time it adds fluid to the system is when the pads wear. Otherwise the fluid stays in the MC.. I had always thought that the system was a "Closed System" but it still circulated fluid as the brakes were applied and agreed that the only time it should show low in the MC is when the pads wear or there is a leak.

He said he removes ALL brake fluid ever odd year (01, 03, 05 etc.) puts in new and bleeds them. PS fluid, he couldn't remember the last time he drained it and / or replaced it. Oh, and he drains the anti-freeze each even year (00, 02, 04 etc.) we got a good laugh about all this, BUT NOW I question my ""Preventive"" maintenance and wonder if I'm actually doing any good :eek

So.. my questions:

• Does changing just the MC Fluid really do any good.
• Does draining the PS Pump and replacing fluid really do any good.
• Is 2 ~ 3 Years good enough for changing Anti-Freeze (checking it yearly).

TIA

Bud

 

[JohnZ]

1. Does changing just the MC Fluid really do any good.
2. Does draining the PS Pump and replacing fluid really do any good.
3. Is 2 ~ 3 Years good enough for changing Anti-Freeze (checking it yearly).

TIA

Bud

1. Changing the brake fluid in the master cylinder accomplishes little, as your friend was correct - the reservoir is just that - a reserve; there is no circulation of brake fluid. It IS a good idea to flush and bleed the system with fresh fluid every 2-3 years, to get rid of old fluid that may have absorbed moisture and replace it with fresh fluid to avoid corrosion.

2. I've never changed P/S fluid - just check it periodically and add if required.

3. The clock runs on anti-freeze whether the car is running or not; the anti-freezing capability doesn't degrade, but the additive package will as it does its job (anti-corrosion, anti-foaming, etc.); good idea to drain, flush, and refill with a 50-50 mixture of fresh anti-freeze and distilled water every 2-3 years, especially if you have an aluminum radiator.

Also a good idea to change the oil and filter, then drive it a few miles before you lay the car up for the winter, so it has fresh, clean oil with a fresh additive package in it while it sits all winter. Don't start it during storage unless you drive it at least ten miles to get the oil in the pan up to full temperature; if you just start it, let it warm up, and shut it down, the oil in the pan won't get hot enough to boil off the condensate and rich-mixture cold-start combustion contaminants and blow-by, which then sit in the oil and make it more acidic, which can cause sludge. The seals won't "dry out" if you don't run it - that's an old wives' tale.

I've garage-stored my "toys" for 40+ years through the 6-month Michigan winters following this regimen, never had a problem. I put a "Battery Tender" on each car once a month for about 24 hours during storage to keep the battery at full charge, and come spring, I just prime the carbs through the bowl vent tube, they fire right up, I check the tire pressures, and drive 'em.

 

[Yoda]

Thanks for the reply John. I'll let the "Boys" know Monday morning I will print this thread and take it with me, you know how them Old MoPar Boys can be :L

All in fun, we ALL appreciate the old muscle cars and even some of the new ones, and discuss todays designs just about every day... So far I think the vote would say MoPar has the upper hand in designs... AND we ALL turn and look for that nice sounding car/pickup that goes by :dance

Bud

 

[Wayne robson]

Fluids and storage

Great article, Bud and Johnz, i wanted to ad during storage inside the garage on cold concrete floors, for years i have always laid down under cars a double layer of card board, its easy to obtain and you would not believe the differents it makes to keeping the cold from coming up through the floor and on to the chassis etc, cardboard has a double layer of paper with a cavity of small honey comb, this is why it works better than anything,the floor is one of the coldest places in the garage, plus it keeps the floor clean. Wayne.

 

[Tom Bryant]

I change the anti freeze every other year and also the engine oil in the fall before storage. Like John said, I don't run it unless I can warm it thoroughly with a drive of 10 miles or more. No reason to mess with the MC unless you are doing a complete system flush. Same for the p/s. I have seen milky p/s fluid from water contamination due to over aggressive pressure washing or maybe leaving the cap loose. That would require changing.

Other than that a full tank of new gas with Stabil added is all I do. If I get a nice dry day in the winter after the roads have been washed with a few days of rain I have a 15 mile loop along the river and out through the countyside that I run. Some years I don't get this opportunity but it has happened twice this year.

If I need it out of the garage but can't drive it over the loop I push it.

Tom

 

[JohnZ]

I have a 15 mile loop along the river and out through the countyside that I run.

My "loop" has become somewhat obscured. otfl

 

[crowvet]

My "loop" has become somewhat obscured. otfl

I dont agree completly with the brake fluid issue. The system is closed and the fluid does return each time you let off the brake. Think about it if it were no more than a reserve, Why does it turn black and dirty??? It does eventually return to the reservoir. However I think using a turkey baster and sucking the reservoir down and refilling every year is good enough. Just my 2 cents

 

[Hib Halverson]

The idea that brake fluid does not "circulate" is rediculous.

With non-ABS systems (ie: pre-85) it is true that there is no forced circulation in the system from master cylinder reserviour to wheel cylinders or brake calipers, but that doen't mean fluid doesn't slowly migrate through the system.

It does.

For best durability of any brake system, the fluid should periodically be flushed...about every 2-3 years.

In the case of the 65-82s, the durabiilty of their corrosion-prone disc brake systems depend on regular bleeding and/or flushing to remove moisture from the system. I bleed at least once a year and flush every 2-3 years.

85-08 cars with ABS, and/or traction control and or active handling DO recirculate brake fluild in parts of the system. For best reliabillity/durability of expensive brake parts, like the modulator valve, brake fluid needs to be changed every 2-3 years.

Hydraulic power steering systems have no filters and some don't even have internal magnets to trap large debris. Also, severe duty causes some power steering fluids to partially oxidize. For those reasons, best reliability/durability of the power steering system comes with periodic changes of fluid. I do mine every 3yrs or 36,000 miles and I use Red Line Synthetic Power Steering fluid.

 

[crowvet]

The idea that brake fluid does not "circulate" is rediculous.

With non-ABS systems (ie: pre-85) it is true that there is no forced circulation in the system from master cylinder reserviour to wheel cylinders or brake calipers, but that doen't mean fluid doesn't slowly migrate through the system.

It does.

For best durability of any brake system, the fluid should periodically be flushed...about every 2-3 years.

In the case of the 65-82s, the durabiilty of their corrosion-prone disc brake systems depend on regular bleeding and/or flushing to remove moisture from the system. I bleed at least once a year and flush every 2-3 years.

85-08 cars with ABS, and/or traction control and or active handling DO recirculate brake fluild in parts of the system. For best reliabillity/durability of expensive brake parts, like the modulator valve, brake fluid needs to be changed every 2-3 years.

Hydraulic power steering systems have no filters and some don't even have internal magnets to trap large debris. Also, severe duty causes some power steering fluids to partially oxidize. For those reasons, best reliability/durability of the power steering system comes with periodic changes of fluid. I do mine every 3yrs or 36,000 miles and I use Red Line Synthetic Power Steering fluid.

I Agree