For Kid_Again..But You Can Look Too... Very Interesting And Can Save You Grief.

[Viet Nam Vett]

The Kid was over my Gee Rage this past Sunday to give me a hand bolting up the hood and checking air cleaneer clearence etc. After we got the hood ruffed in Kid went to bolt up the hood prop in the hood with the 1/4 20 bolts. One went in with no problems.....the other didn't seem to want to grab any threads..

That's because ..there weren't any.....:L . The nut must have popped off the nut plate and dropped down in the hood channel....By By..

Ok..now...WTF.....How do you fix that. The Kid and I brain stormed all kinds of ideas including major drawings and diagrams of all kinds. What we were left with were some labor intensive ideas all for a friggen 1/4 20 nut.

I was at work to day at the old Casino and one of the guys in the Kitchen shop asked how my Vette was coming along. I then proceeded to go into the rant about the friggen 1/4 20 nut. His answer was ...heh..!!! Follow me.

We went to the Kitchen shop where he gave me this handy dany fix em up tool ...ckeck it out . I think it's called ...."NUTSERT" . I'll get the name of the company and post it here..cause I'm buying one. It's kinda like a Pop rivet except you pop in a 1/4 20 threaded insert... neet huh...???

 

[IH2LOSE]

The one I have is called a markson. Allthough the insert are not the strongest ,no shop should be with out one.
the biggest problem is having to purchase indexed drill bits to drill for the inserts.

I purchased mine from a company called fastenall. but east woods and grainger carry them also

I have been using mine allot for placing in straps for the wiring harness.

 

[JL66REDCPE]

Cool tool - nice fix. I would think it is going to hold fine.

 

[firstgear]

The Kid was over my Gee Rage this past Sunday to give me a hand bolting up the hood and checking air cleaneer clearence etc. After we got the hood ruffed in Kid went to bolt up the hood prop in the hood with the 1/4 20 bolts. One went in with no problems.....the other didn't seem to want to grab any threads..

That's because ..there weren't any.....:L . The nut must have popped off the nut plate and dropped down in the hood channel....By By..

Ok..now...WTF.....How do you fix that. The Kid and I brain stormed all kinds of ideas including major drawings and diagrams of all kinds. What we were left with were some labor intensive ideas all for a friggen 1/4 20 nut.

I was at work to day at the old Casino and one of the guys in the Kitchen shop asked how my Vette was coming along. I then proceeded to go into the rant about the friggen 1/4 20 nut. His answer was ...heh..!!! Follow me.

We went to the Kitchen shop where he gave me this handy dany fix em up tool ...ckeck it out . I think it's called ...."NUTSERT" . I'll get the name of the company and post it here..cause I'm buying one. It's kinda like a Pop rivet except you pop in a 1/4 20 threaded insert... neet huh...???

Does that insert grab the metal backing plate as well or is it just grabbing the glass? If it is just grabbing glass, I would be worried about it holding over time, if it is grabbing the backer plate, then that is awesome....as far as using it to put tabs on for wiring harnesses, that would be ok, but I would like to know how it worked with the backer.....does seems like a great tool....thanks for sharing!

 

[IH2LOSE]

Does that insert grab the metal backing plate as well or is it just grabbing the glass? If it is just grabbing glass, I would be worried about it holding over time, if it is grabbing the backer plate, then that is awesome....as far as using it to put tabs on for wiring harnesses, that would be ok, but I would like to know how it worked with the backer.....does seems like a great tool....thanks for sharing!

The nut serts are diffucult to order the correct one as they have so many of them with different gripping ranges.
As long as he used one with a thick Gripping range that is reaching back into the backer plate I think it will do well.

Another tool that you would not think you need but once you have it in the garage it seems you use it on every project.

They also have them now with poly lock's built into them.

 

[firstgear]

The nut serts are diffucult to order the correct one as they have so many of them with different gripping ranges.
As long as he used one with a thick Gripping range that is reaching back into the backer plate I think it will do well.

Another tool that you would not think you need but once you have it in the garage it seems you use it on every project.

They also have them now with poly lock's built into them.

thanks Larry....that makes good sense....does seem like a tool required for the shop....I will look around for one....and a supply of attachments with different gripping ranges.....

thanks again for the posting as well....very helpful information....

 

[Viet Nam Vett]

Does that insert grab the metal backing plate as well or is it just grabbing the glass? If it is just grabbing glass, I would be worried about it holding over time, if it is grabbing the backer plate, then that is awesome....as far as using it to put tabs on for wiring harnesses, that would be ok, but I would like to know how it worked with the backer.....does seems like a great tool....thanks for sharing!

Well the backing plate is still their as the other nut is their also. So I assume I did grabe the plate.. It took a lot of torque without feeling like it was pulling out.....

 

[Kid_Again]

This, I Like.



Very good post.

 

[JohnZ]

I use aluminum Rivnuts for applications like that, or where self-tapping bolts that go into pierced holes in the frame without weld nuts (like for the spare tire upper tub) have stripped out. I just use an allen head cap screw and an oiled-up flat washer as my installation tool; when you torque it up, the shank of the Rivnut "mushrooms" behind the panel and clinches solidly in place.

 

[Viet Nam Vett]

I use aluminum Rivnuts for applications like that, or where self-tapping bolts that go into pierced holes in the frame without weld nuts (like for the spare tire upper tub) have stripped out. I just use an allen head cap screw and an oiled-up flat washer as my installation tool; when you torque it up, the shank of the Rivnut "mushrooms" behind the panel and clinches solidly in place.

And would you find the above at your local hardwhare store..?? Or is it a commerical item..where would I buy them. That actually looks simpler then buying a complete system...

 

[firstgear]

as you descrive it, it looks like one of those mollys that you would put in concrete that bulges out or those ones that you stick in drywall that flaten out behind the wall....it isn't exactly like that...but I get the idea....so where do you find those thingys?

 

[IH2LOSE]

And would you find the above at your local hardwhare store..?? Or is it a commerical item..where would I buy them. That actually looks simpler then buying a complete system...

Dont be fooled into thinking its easey to do with out the tool from a guy who has probably been setting these things for the last 30 years

I had an old frame man thet used to set them with out the tool in secounds. My problem was with out the tool the insert spins and never fully compres.

Invest in the tool its a good investment and You will always use it and last a life time unless you lose the different dies with it.

No offence meant John but It takes alot of skill to set them with out the tool.Unless your prick prunching the nut sert to keep from spinning?

 

[John Mcgraw]

Anyone buy them at Mc Master Carr www.mcmastercarr.com Search under threaded inserts. They are available in steel and aluminum and they are available in flange head and flush mount. I use the steel ones primarily,and allways get the ones that are serrated around the insert, so that you have to tap them in and the serrations grab the hole. I have literally dozens of them on my 59 project and they hold on everything from fuel lines to bumper brackets. The hand tool that is shown works just like a pop rivet tool and pulls the back of the insert up and expands it behind the hole. These work fine for machine screws sizes and aluminum ones, but they do not have the power to expand a 5/16 or 3/8" steel insert. I have made my own tool for the expansion of these large inserts that works well, but you can also buy one for these large sizes. These inserts are as strong as the metal that they are inserted in. These things are the best thing since sliced bread, and very fabricator should have a selection in their shop supplies. Here is a link to a pic of a 3/8" serrated one. http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/339303/P0001310.jpg


Regards, John McGraw

 

[bossvette]

I have an assorted kit with a simple installation tool from Eastwood I bought years ago I will post a picture of tomorrow and the part number.
I use it quite often, the tool is simply a serrated nut type thing you hold with a wrench as you screw the bolt in. It comes in handy when you want to mount something on a firewall or inner fender etc.

 

[67HEAVEN]

It comes in handy when you want to mount something on a firewall or inner fender etc.

I'm looking forward to the photo, Craig. It sounds useful.

 

[Paranoid]

I saw that tool in the J.C Whitney catalog many years ago. Never bought one.

Good thread.

 

[Kid_Again]

Nice '70!

 

[Viet Nam Vett]

Nice '70!

Yeah...I'll second that... Sweet.......

 

[bossvette]

I was wrong I bought the Kit from Gardner-Wescott 1-800-897-5025 it has 10-32; 1/4-20; 5/16-18 and 3/8-16 nutserts and installation tools. You can see the tools in the top of the box. Part number is N312D for the kit.

Gardner-Wescott is another good source for those hard to find fastners; you can buy as few or as many as you want. I need to get a new catalog, it seems mine is ancient and the company has moved to:
[font=Arial, Helvetica] 10110 Six Mile Road - Northville, Michigan 48167 USA

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[JohnZ]

No offence meant John but It takes alot of skill to set them with out the tool.Unless your prick prunching the nut sert to keep from spinning?

That's why I use the aluminum Rivnuts instead of the steel ones - they're a lot easier to "set". I use a hex bit in my air impact, oil the threads and the flat washer, thread the screw in about halfway, position the Rivnut in the hole with the bit inserted in the allen screw, and pull the trigger; the impact spins up instantly with no load (which is why I only insert the allen head screw halfway), and when the screw/washer bottoms out against the face of the Rivnut, it clinches/mushrooms instantly. Hardly ever have to hold the O.D. of the Rivnut face - if I have to, that's why I use a small-O.D. AN washer with the allen screw - leaves room to grab the O.D. of the Rivnut with pliers.

With the steel ones, you definitely need the installation tool.